Chris Whitty moves to head off GPs' rebellion over vaccine doses

www.ft.com/content/d97c72c5-ed23-4c2b-bf1c-9cc10b21f007

Pfizer is saying the “safety and efficacy” of the new schedule had not been evaluated and, while partial protection through the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first jab, Pfizer stressed in a statement on Thursday that two doses were required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, with an efficacy figure of 95 per cent.

Crucially, it said: “There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.”

I hope to goodness the last statement doesn't prove to be true because people will have had the first dose for nothing.

growstuff

www.ft.com/content/d97c72c5-ed23-4c2b-bf1c-9cc10b21f007

Pfizer is saying the “safety and efficacy” of the new schedule had not been evaluated and, while partial protection through the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first jab, Pfizer stressed in a statement on Thursday that two doses were required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, with an efficacy figure of 95 per cent.

Crucially, it said: “There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.”

I hope to goodness the last statement doesn't prove to be true because people will have had the first dose for nothing.

I think that until there is empirical evidence to the contrary, we have to accept what we are being told by Pfizer.

What the hell is going on?

Also if they mess up & make the first dose ‘worthless’ there will be additional vaccines needed overall as people will still need two doses of one.

Maybe. The reality is they don’t know whether one is enough for 12 weeks or not.

I cannot imagine why they are doing this but it really looks like some sort of panicked responses

It seems to be a case of scientists/virologists not quite agreeing with each other, political ‘need’ wanting as many people to have some protection as possible and any other reason you can think of.
The main thing though, is that our ‘jabs’ are on the way.

Indeed, MayBee. I just hope that whatever it is results in a change back to the original policy. Totally agree with whitewave that we should accept what Pfizer is telling us at the moment. But why is the JCVI saying what it is saying - and also Chris Whitty? I see him as an honourable man. Something is going on.

Are they really on the way? I wouldn’t bank on it....

....And of course we still need to do the hands, face and space.
Even with the flu jab we still sometimes get flu after all.

we are so so lucky to have our very own residential medical expert on GN ... you must all feel so relieved.

Meanwhile the world watches aghast as the British population is used as a giant guinea pig.

What is happening in the UK has massive implications and risks, way beyond the UK.

Pfizer specifically say that their vaccine against Covid19 must be taken in two separate doses 21 days apart. Only one dose and its ineffectual, any longer than 3 weeks and its ineffective.
UK Government planning a 12 week delay between doses for some ridiculous reason (maybe they can't get enough doses into the country?).
Not only will this political choice make those vaccinations ineffective according to the vaccine manufacturer, it will also make the vaccine unlicensed.
And yet it gets even worse than that. There are warnings that if a person has a single dose or a second dose 3 months later this process actually ENCOURAGES the Covid19 virus to adapt and work up immunity to the vaccine and then this mutation can then travel the world infecting other countries where they are vaccinating properly with a new mutation created in the UK that is immune to the vaccine.
The UK Government are simply a danger to the world and totally irresponsible. Someone needs to stop them. But WHO?

Wasn’t it Tony Blair who suggested the strategy for lleaving .the second dose til later?

growstuff

www.ft.com/content/d97c72c5-ed23-4c2b-bf1c-9cc10b21f007

Pfizer is saying the “safety and efficacy” of the new schedule had not been evaluated and, while partial protection through the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first jab, Pfizer stressed in a statement on Thursday that two doses were required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, with an efficacy figure of 95 per cent.

Crucially, it said: “There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.”

I hope to goodness the last statement doesn't prove to be true because people will have had the first dose for nothing.

This. Thank you everyone for a great thread. I thought I was on my own with my concerns. I should have dropped by sooner.

I am on the PPG of the local surgery and our GPS are defying the government and giving the second dose, as planned, to people who have already had the first.

I am very much in favour of either vaccine, but I have no intention of having the Pfizer vaccine unless I know it WON’T be a case of mix and match with the Oxford one. I also want to see the evidence that a 12 week gap between doses is efficacious. I won’t take part in an experiment.

Grannyactivist I agree with your views, and those of us who have already had the first Pfizer jab are now taking part in an experiment without giving our permission. Obviously, one wants as many people as possible to have cover , and WAS grateful for receiving it,but I don’t want this stuff in my body if it is not doing any good.I signed up to what was approved by the powers that be.

There are medical ethics at play here too. Giving consent for the first vaccine was on the understanding that the second would be given at the recommended time as far as I can understand.

I wonder if they will be checking for antibody response 4 weeks after the first injection if another not given? Very disappointing if vaccine fails in efficacy as a result. Let’s hope this uncontrolled trial works.

Exactly my point Greeneyedgirl

The ethics of it is shocking. You can’t just force people from an agreed prophylactic treatment into a trial without asking for their consent.

There seem to be two threads on this topic

Very disappointing if vaccine fails in efficacy as a result. Let’s hope this uncontrolled trial works.

And that we don't end up with almost no-one being protected.

Pfizer is not willing to say "That could work, in a limited way" or anything resembling that - so clearly it's more appalling bungling from government.

Pfizer is not willing to say "That could work, in a limited way" or anything resembling that - so clearly it's more appalling bungling from government.

If they have no data for efficacy after 21 days then they would be utterly and recklessly foolhardy to give any opinion at all on prolonging the dosage interval.

I absolutely agree with grannyactivist. I won't have the vaccine unless it is proven that the extended interval doesn't affect its efficacy.

I am so sorry for all of the UK having to live through this terrible, scaring time with utter incompetents running the country.

biba70

What is happening in the UK has massive implications and risks, way beyond the UK.

Pfizer specifically say that their vaccine against Covid19 must be taken in two separate doses 21 days apart. Only one dose and its ineffectual, any longer than 3 weeks and its ineffective.
UK Government planning a 12 week delay between doses for some ridiculous reason (maybe they can't get enough doses into the country?).
Not only will this political choice make those vaccinations ineffective according to the vaccine manufacturer, it will also make the vaccine unlicensed.
And yet it gets even worse than that. There are warnings that if a person has a single dose or a second dose 3 months later this process actually ENCOURAGES the Covid19 virus to adapt and work up immunity to the vaccine and then this mutation can then travel the world infecting other countries where they are vaccinating properly with a new mutation created in the UK that is immune to the vaccine.
The UK Government are simply a danger to the world and totally irresponsible. Someone needs to stop them. But WHO?

Biba70 can you please link to your evidence that a single dose or a second dose 3 months later encourages this mutation to a virus immune to the vaccine? I'm not in agreement with the delay for the Pfizer vaccine, but the AstraZenica one should be fine with a longer gap between doses, although I'd prefer 5-6 weeks.

Bit ironic that you capitalised your final who, as the WHO failed the world miserably at the start of this pandemic.

If it's of any help or interest to posters, I've been given a link to the 'Short statement from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI)' 31st December.

It was from someone who was trying to allay fears about the efficacy of a loner dosage interval.

I'm not sure I'm yet convinced...

app.box.com/s/uwwn2dv4o2d0ena726gf4403f3p2acnu

longer, not 'loner'

Rosie15 - I have a background in evolutionary biology (although not viral) & whilst I wouldn’t necessarily go so far as to say that it encourages vaccine resistance (mutation is random) potentially allowing more transmission to take place does increase the risk.

For a brief Twitter thread that explains the issue succinctly see here. This chap is a a research scientist in viral evolution. twitter.com/paulbieniasz/status/1344277738576900097?s=21

They may get away with it - you need a series of random events to occur for vaccine resistance to evolve but I agree with him that we will be watching experiments in viral evolution. All his comments are worth reading.

Thanks for that MaizieD, that is mostly in agreement with what Dr John Campbell was saying. I do feel more reassured about the Pfizer vaccine now, although I'm far more likely to be vaccinated when it will be predominately the AstraZenica.