Im not convinced the covid vaccine will make any difference!

More or Less with Tim Harford started again this morning 9-10am. It is a worthwhile listen because it is informative and debunks some stats used in political debates.

The Pfizer vaccine was discussed this morning and concensus similar to your post Allegrias. No evidence that first vacc won’t protect adequately, just not time for enough data yet. On past experience, protection will likely last long enough until 2nd later than projected dose.

Sorry 9-9.30am.

Thanks for your post Genty.

I think most people realise that no vaccine gives 100% protection, especially after one, when a 2nd is needed to boost (as in Covid vacc). Protection is dependent on individual immune response as to what protection is achieved.

We will still need to be cautious until herd immunity is reached in the community by vaccination. This may take years.

Hear, hear Greeneyedgirl

Your polite and measured post made me delete mine before I sent it

Alegrias. So you agree that the Pfizer results are based on two doses about 3 weeks apart. That means that any other gap between vaccination of their product is untried, untested and to give drugs based on an untried, untested regime is by definition medically unethical.
I did not suggest it doesn’t work. It is not known whether it will work or not. Why are we being treated as guinea pigs?
Could it be that the powers that be are more interested in the statistics as to how many people have been vaccinated rather than how many people have received two doses proven to give a degree of immunity?

In my case, what are you supposed to do if you can't get to these allotted centres for vaccinations without putting " yourself in danger " from travelling on buses or using taxis ? When you're not used to leaving the house much ?

“Vaccines are the tugboats of preventative health” — William Foege

honeyrose

The vaccine seems to be our only way out of this pandemic to my way of thinking. The poor NHS is so badly stretched now, it is absolutely terrifying. Yes, we’ll still have to be very careful for some time yet with the precautions we’ve been following, but the vaccine seems to be our only hope. Surely we want some normality restored, to see our friends and family, to go about our daily lives, to not have this constant worry. We cannot go on like this, the NHS cannot go on like this, the economy cannot go on like this. The situation right now is dire, of nightmare proportions. So many deaths, so many life-changing health conditions (long COVID). So many other health conditions going untreated. COVID is a modern-day plague. My arm is more than ready! I’m in my 60’s, so the vaccine will be a few more weeks (or even months?!) away, but i’m waiting patiently! To the doubters amongst you, please seriously reconsider having the vaccine. What other choices you we have?

This

EllanVannin

In my case, what are you supposed to do if you can't get to these allotted centres for vaccinations without putting " yourself in danger " from travelling on buses or using taxis ? When you're not used to leaving the house much ?

My next door neighbour is having the vaccination tomorrow and the NHS are providing transport. I don’t know what kind of transport though.

Esspee I'm not explaining it all again as people are probably fed up hearing me do that, and the people who don't want to understand won't believe me anyway.

The powers that be are not interested in getting people vaccinated to look good, they're interested in getting people vaccinated so that fewer of us die

MayBee70, the NHS use a private taxi service, but I wouldn't expect that personally. I'll have to wait until my D has finished the 6 week course that she's doing.

Esspee

*Alegrias*. So you agree that the Pfizer results are based on two doses about 3 weeks apart. That means that any other gap between vaccination of their product is untried, untested and to give drugs based on an untried, untested regime is by definition medically unethical.
I did not suggest it doesn’t work. It is not known whether it will work or not. Why are we being treated as guinea pigs?
Could it be that the powers that be are more interested in the statistics as to how many people have been vaccinated rather than how many people have received two doses proven to give a degree of immunity?

But the vaccines have been approved using emergency measures anyway. In the middle of a pandemic sometimes you have to speed things up eg the WHO dragged its heels over advocating the wearing of masks because they didn’t have absolute proof that it worked. The same thing is happening with VitD. At the end of the day spacing out the vaccine will not actually harm anyone. It may or may not reduce the efficacy of the vaccine but it won’t kill anyone. Catching the virus with no protection at all might though. In all probability spacing it out will work. And giving more vaccines quicker will reduce the pressure on NHS resources. If someone said to me you can have one vaccine now and wait three months for the second or wait 6 months for the first one I know what I’d do along with continuing with hands face space ventilate.

I think Genty has been unfairly personally attacked for simply quoting (as s/he says, admittedly I haven’t checked for myself) the NHS website.

However many GNetters have made clearer than that quotation that (1) the evidence is that the vaccines hugely reduce the severity of the disease for individuals and (2) vaccinated individuals may still be at risk of transmitting the virus so we will still have hygiene rules.

So I hope that with successful vaccination rollout we will soonish be finding it more like coping with seasonal flu rather than raging pandemic.

EllanVannin

The vaccine is only as good as the virus it's protecting. I remember reading an article based on the 'flu vaccine in 2019 which said that it hadn't worked against the strain of 'flu doing its rounds at the time. Viruses are changeing all the time.

Yes, the scientists have to predict which flu strains will be around each year and alter the vaccines accordingly.

www.cogconsortium.uk/news_item/update-on-new-sars-cov-2-variant-and-how-cog-uk-tracks-emerging-mutations/

I'm having mine on Saturday. I'm not under the illusion that it will confer immediate or even long-term complete immunity but it's a step in the right direction. I doubt that the recent reduction in cases is due to vaccination yet. However, it's plausible that the increase in hospital admissions following the Christmas free-for-all has now dropped off.

EllanVannin

*MayBee70*, the NHS use a private taxi service, but I wouldn't expect that personally. I'll have to wait until my D has finished the 6 week course that she's doing.

THAT is what are you supposed to do if you can't get to these allotted centres for vaccinations without putting " yourself in danger " from travelling on buses or using taxis - you are supposed to take up the service that has been set up for you. When they have taken the trouble and expense of arranging a way for you to get to the centre, it is churlish to say that you "wouldn't expect that personally. I'll have to wait . . . . "
Get the vaccination as soon as it is offered. and join in with those who are getting themselves protected and the pressure on the medical services decreased. That is the purpose of the vaccinations and of the transport to get you to them.

My neighbour is in her late eighties. She suffers from Parkinson’s and has limited vision. Her sones live in other parts of the country. We are shielding ourselves so can’t take her: she’s also not in our bubble (we haven’t actually got a bubble it’s just us two and the dog).

My mother was given her vaccine at home.

Once the Astra-Zeneca vaccine is available to all the teams on the ground (it’s isn’t yet), people who are classified at their GP surgery as housebound, who are in receipt of some care or district nursing support will get their vaccinations at home, usually done by the district nurses - but it’s not age but physical/mental capacity dependent. I think the lack of this vaccine is a big limiting factor at the moment because the Pfizer vaccine can’t be given to people at home.

Casdon

The Covid virus can’t be compared with the flu virus EllanVannin, because there are a large number of flu viruses circulating worldwide, so each year the content of the vaccine is adapted to match the strain that is the most prevalent elsewhere at the time of development in the world - typically the UK vaccine is based on the experience in Australia in their winter before ours. Usually the predictions are not too far off, but some years the vaccine that is developed doesn’t match the strain of flu that is prevalent in the UK.
At the moment, because Covid 19 is a new virus, and is being studied worldwide for mutations, we will know quickly when a mutation that doesn’t respond to the vaccination develops, the scientists are already predicting what that might be and working on the vaccines to counteract.

Thankyou for this explanationcasdon