We need to take control

Lucca I totally agree!

Because most influencers are very shallow and many young people really aren't that shallow.

“ The trouble with using influencers is that their message can sometimes end up being very patronising.”. How so ?

I’d have thought a lot less patronising in young people’s view than Hancock et al.

Lucca People talk about the briefings on tv and what we are told but it occurs to me that a lot of the people flouting the rules would never watch bbc tv much less a news programme.

Totally agree. The youngest independent members of my family, nieces and nephews in their teens/early twenties, get most of their information from their friends, often via social media. Although they are better now at staying home for a long time (during last lockdown) they were out and about and were convinced the pandemic had nothing to do with them.

It's true that young people are more likely to pick up messaging from social media than TV.

Namsnanny

Lucca ... What they need is reality stars, rappers, influencers going on social media, telling it like it is

That is a very good idea.
Come to think of it I havent heard of anyone fitting that description supporting staying home. Either British or American (as they seem to have a lot of influence with younger age groups)

I know all the younger people I know are taking it seriously and staying in, especially those without children.

I do remember some footballers and their partners posting from a party they were at over Christmas, without a care in the world!

The trouble with using influencers is that their message can sometimes end up being very patronising.

The only youngish people I've been in constant contact with over the last months are my children and my tutees. My children, both in their 20s, have told me they've hardly been out (and I believe them). One is a student, stuck in Newcastle, and the other is currently working from home, as is her partner, with whom she lives.

My tutees had to go to school, but they've also told me they haven't been anywhere else. One of them is bubbled with his grandmother, but that's it.

I've just watched today's briefing. I was quite impressed with Prof Stephen Powis, NHS England national medical director - boring, factual, got the message across without scare mongering and no ridiculous promises or gags.

Esspee.Prof John Bell was excellent answering the endless comparisons with New Zealand.Basically he categorically said stop doing it.And his briefing was the clearest,most reasssuring and believable update I've seen in this whole crisis. What matters is the here and now.Today .Getting people to cut all unnecessary contact,practice social distancing and masks and take up the invitation to get vaccinated.

Lucca ... What they need is reality stars, rappers, influencers going on social media, telling it like it is

That is a very good idea.
Come to think of it I havent heard of anyone fitting that description supporting staying home. Either British or American (as they seem to have a lot of influence with younger age groups)

I know all the younger people I know are taking it seriously and staying in, especially those without children.



I do remember some footballers and their partners posting from a party they were at over Christmas, without a care in the world!

Quite right Esspee, so much more could have been done, but wasn't.

Lucca, yes, BBC news, preaching to the converted. Of course, the selfish brigade don't watch it. They don't want to know.

A friend even said 'Oh, I didn't know only two of us could walk together!' (as if ignorance is an excuse).

Hetty58. That is exactly the point I was making. Other countries have strategies to halt the spread to their residents.

The U.K. has had a year to close the borders and introduce effective quarantine measures yet we still don’t have them. It is only now that having a negative test on entry is being brought in despite many countries implementing that many months ago. This is an island and, like Australia and New Zealand, we had a huge advantage which the government did not take advantage of.

Sir John Bell had an excellent response to a BBC reporter who tried to compare us with NZ.

People talk about the briefings on tv and what we are told but it occurs to me that a lot of the people flouting the rules would never watch bbc tv much less a news programme.

And this is spot on, Lucca

I have a friend, aged 60, (should know better) who is clueless about what's going on. She's just doing her own thing and wonders when I became so well-behaved

I've tried to tell her this is slightly different from us going into discos when underage but she isn't interested.

She won't be the only one. I honestly don't know what would make her adhere to any rules.

At least two threads addressing the same question so I will repeat my comment from t’other one. People talk about the briefings on tv and what we are told but it occurs to me that a lot of the people flouting the rules would never watch bbc tv much less a news programme. What they need are celebrities - reality stars rappers influencers etc - going on social media telling it like it is
.the briefing advice is surely often preaching to the converted

Esspee, NZ has been able to effectively close it's borders, use successful quarantine measures and nip outbreaks in the bud.

Our so-called 'quarantine' is pathetic (to non existent) by comparison. Unlike NZ, we're densely populated, also, unfortunately, an international travel hub.

growstuff

I'd forgotten what was in the op. I agree that personal liberty matters and shouldn't be sent to hell. However, surely personal liberty includes the right to be able to go to a supermarket and not be breathed on by somebody not wearing a mask, but was exercising their personal liberty not to wear one.

I'd forgotten what was in the op .... I do that too!!

I wish for the same.

Alegrias1 ... I was just, as I said confused because I thought we were saying basically the same thing!

I confess to being continually confused by some posts, I think the written word conveys different emotions some times

This post has nothing to do with China’s civil liberties. I simply wished to highlight that countries such as China and New Zealand have, through strict implementation of strategies designed to halt the spread, been able to control the pandemic.

All I meant Namsnanny was that you said you weren't going to talk about human rights, but that I thought it was relevant because of the comment in the OP. Sorry if it came across as as negative

Alegrias1 ...
I dont support those who say we should be more like China and our rights dont matter

Unlike namsnanny I do think its relevant to speak about it on this thread since the OP included to hell with personal liberty

I'm confused!

My point is we cant trust China on anything to do with Covid as they were found lying to the WHO.

Also out civil liberties MAY be under threat with regard to the Police Commissioner asking for new laws to challenge our rights to need a warrant to enter our homes.

Thats all.

The human rights issue doesnt really come under the general thrust of the original post.

Discuss it by all means when ever or where ever you like.

I'm just pointing out I'm not changing the direction of this thread by doing so.

Nothing I have said is meant to address anything other than China, its veracity on Covid and what Civil Liberties in the UK means at this moment in time.

If I've confuse some then I hope this sets the record straight.

growstuff, going to a supermarket, anywhere around here (London) right now would be reckless behaviour. There'd be several infectious individuals there already!

I don't ignore civil liberties, ever.

The old phrase of "with rights come responsibilities" couldn't be truer in this situation. But nobody should stand by and say nothing when people start dismissing personal liberty, human rights and democracy, all of which has been done on this thread.

In theory, I'm in favour of much stricter measures (to save lives). In practice, though, there's little point, is there, when rules aren't enforced?

Growstuff, you've hit the nail on the head there! People do ignore civil liberties until they see a direct threat to themselves.

I'd forgotten what was in the op. I agree that personal liberty matters and shouldn't be sent to hell. However, surely personal liberty includes the right to be able to go to a supermarket and not be breathed on by somebody not wearing a mask, but was exercising their personal liberty not to wear one.

Alegrias1

Your point about right to life against right to freedom of expression is a good one Growstuff. But I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe we need a thread on human rights .

Unlike Namsnanny I do think its relevant to speak about it on this thread since the OP included the sentence ^To hell with personal Liberty^

Sometimes different rights do clash. That's why courts of human rights are needed.

Alegrias1

I agree with most of what you've posted today MaizieD. Just to be clear, I support stricter measures. Close places of worship, restrict non-essential shops for instance.

I don't support people who say that we should be more like China and that our rights don't matter.

Observing "best practice" is a well-established management technique. It involves looking at what works (and something in China clearly is) and adapting to individual situations. It doesn't mean that the UK has to become like China overnight or take Chines solutions "off the peg".

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what our objections are to Chinese solutions and whether those objections are reasonable and/or could be overcome. I expect there are people in China discussing the pandemic in Western Europe and shaking their heads in disbelief that people won't do as they're told.