Asian Lockdown

There'd be much more 'consent' if people trusted the government and if the government wasn't behaving so idioticly.

If we start doing what the government say just because they are telling us to and because of the threat of punishment, then the basis of our society is lost

I think you’ll find 99% of us are doing that every single day of our lives. I don’t drive through red lights because I’m not allowed, & if I do I’ll get into trouble. The ‘rules’ we abide by are endless.
To tighten the rules you already live by, just for a few months to save lives, is not the end of society as we know it.
I’m 57 and have never been in lockdown before - I think I can put up with it once in my lifetime.

Its not jut China, there are other countries in SE Asia and they have all done well in keeping the virus in check. Laos has no infection and their lockdown policy has been no one allowed into the country and they have been very strict on this. Thailand has had a few but they are mask wearing and Cambodia, well its a country run by a dictator who is making money out of this (just like some of our politicians) by having anyone who arrive in the country isolated in hotels and tested at least twice before they leave. All paid for by the traveller. We need to take harsher measures but someone said when they were interviewed (can't remember who) that Boris thought it was not British to wear masks outside. You couldn't make it up. We are only just starting to test people flying in from other countries, we don't have a world beating track and trace system and the Boris is complety out of his depth. Not only should we have harsher measure we should in this time of an emergency have a coalition government to deal with it.

I would say that if we can't trust people to do what is in the best interests of everybody, then we've already lost more than doing as we're told for ³2 months could ever do.

I'll say this again. Having strict rules is not totalitarian.

Strict rules, decided by an unaccountable government which are then enforced by unaccountable police forces, is totalitarian. So stop saying we should follow totalitarian regimes.

Laos is a one-party socialist republic. In Cambodia there is no effective opposition party.

BTW - check out Thailand's latest figures. Nowhere is perfect.

A coalition government would be a good step. Accountability again.

One of the problems with the current lockdowns is that the list of key workers has been extended.

DS is a university lecturer. All universities have gone 100% online this term, but, with this lockdown, university lecturers have been reclassified as key workers so can send children to school etc.

DS will not be taking advantage of this new classification and is staying home, as are his children, but his classification does suggest to me that the key worker list needs to be thoroughly revised and some categories removed.

Unfortunately supermarket workers, pharmacy workers, anyone mixing with the public at the moment, are frequently abused if they are told to wear a mask or social distance.

I have a friend who works in a pharmacy and she faces abuse daily, and has even been pushed by a customer. She is now afraid to insist on the rules being kept.

It's all very well for people to say that rules should be tighter but there are some horrible people around with no respect for paramedics and ambulance crews, let alone shop staff, so do we want the police or the army on every corner in order to enforce the restrictions on those who are too stupid or rebellious to follow them?

From what I've read some of the South East Asian countries have handled the pandemic amazingly well, Vietnam and Taiwan have had few fatalities. I don't imagine they have used some of the draconian methods that China has employed. Two factors on their success spring to mind, one they have had previous experience of having to deal with serious virus outbreaks in the past few years and possibly they don't have the liberal western mindset that is proving so ruinous to us here in Europe and much of The Americas. At the week-end in my area, Richmond Park in particular is best avoided it's chocka and everyone is too close. Also paying for petrol last week, some guy wanders into the garage to pick up sandwich and drink, NO MASK!!! really pissed me off, but I can understand shop staff not wanting to take such people on

I can see a stricter lockdown may be needed, I don't agree with the person up thread who said dentists should be closed, crucial for raging tooth ache or worse still an abscess. I cancelled my hygienist appointment last week given the escalation of cases. Leaving the house once a week which has been mooted sounds really draconian and I can imagine supermarkets could well be a lot busier.

I agree with M0nica and Algerias too.

We do have walk a thin line between keeping the population safe and preserving the liberty we take for granted here.

The reason people do what they are told in China is because if they don't, they'll get shot.

As reported by a friend in Australia whose whole family live in Wuhan - they were terrified, flats near them were being boarded up, areas barricaded in. One designated person would be allowed to shop for very limited food.

If only people here would obey the rules re mask wearing - I just read a post which said people on public transport, in shops, were not wearing masks.

We have to reply on collective responsibility, social conscience and many people have neither.

Singapore has been remarkably successful at keeping the death rate from Covid down, but it is a much smaller country than the U.K. One of the reasons for their success I believe has been a robust test, track and trace system.

I think lockdowns are a blunt instrument used when systems such as an efficient test, track and trace have not been functioning early enough, or efficiently, as in the U.K.

Immunisations are not the magic bullet to get us out of the Pandemic, but an efficient tracking system may be.

The way we behave here at teo women who got fined by the police for travelling to walk, you'd think they had been shot!

Some countries which have escaped the virus relatively lightly so far were ones which shut their borders and enforced quarantine on anyone entering, at the person's own expense.

Well I work in a nursery and the things we are doing to keep,us open are amazing. It’s some of the stupid parents who pick up without masks that are putting us at risk not the children!

We have relatives in Singapore. Anyone who’s still allowed to enter has to do a fortnight of quarantine in a hotel room, at their own expense.
A niece of 17, who had to return from boarding school here, whose knee op here was cancelled at short notice because of Covid (even though it wasn’t on the NHS) still had to do the 14 day hotel quarantine, bad knee and all, at her parents’ expense.

It seems to me that most of you are doing exactly what the government would like you to do and that is blaming People. Which lets them off the hook. But they have handled it dreadfully and have a big share in the failure of people to observe lockdown rules.

They've also failed to take measures which are completely beyond our control, like much tighter control of our borders with enforced quarantine for all incoming passengers. And late 'lockdowns', completely ignoring scientific advice.

That's a huge factor in all of this.
Probably the biggest reason why we can't get ahead.

I think on the whole it’s only a minority of people who are ignoring coronavirus advice, and these are the ones we tend to notice. The likely reason for the current surge is because the virus is more transmissible now and adequate planning wasn’t carried out by the government when we had breathing space during the summer, for the predictable winter surge.

So I agree with you MaisieD government inaction. On the positive side I think they are doing well with rolling out vaccines as fast as possible, but as I mentioned up thread, this will not be a magic bullet.

Callistemon

Some countries which have escaped the virus relatively lightly so far were ones which shut their borders and enforced quarantine on anyone entering, at the person's own expense.

Agree Calli probably the main reason. Plus I can’t believe something as basic as wearing a mask cannot be enforced. In Europe no mask no supermarket, no mask no bus!

Kandinsky

I definitely think all places of worship should be closed completely, along with nurseries and non essential shops.
I’m sorry, but trusting in God to keep you coronavirus free is not really an option at the moment.,

I agree with you here about places of worship, but on a practical level, I can't see how a total closure of nurseries (or primary schools) would work. Who else is to look after the young children of the medical workers and the many other absolutely essential workers who are unable to stay at home and either don't have a partner, or have a partner whose work is equally important?

Strange isn't it, in another thread a poster said the British would never tolerate having to take a paper statement out when one left home as we did in France. Now the Asian regime is being mooted.

Biscuitmuncher

Bore off, none of what we are having to endure is worth it

What do you mean by that?

M0nica

One of the problems with the current lockdowns is that the list of key workers has been extended.

DS is a university lecturer. All universities have gone 100% online this term, but, with this lockdown, university lecturers have been reclassified as key workers so can send children to school etc.

DS will not be taking advantage of this new classification and is staying home, as are his children, but his classification does suggest to me that the key worker list needs to be thoroughly revised and some categories removed.

There's already been a U-turn on the definition of key workers.

An article from the FT (not behind a paywall), which IMO summarises the current situation quite well:

www.ft.com/content/1fcbc56a-5628-44fa-bfeb-6af557348a68?segmentID=8a5e261a-9c82-ecb2-d4c2-279db90ba8d3

Stricter coronavirus lockdown measures such as those enforced in Asia should be introduced in the UK to stop the spread of the virus, experts have reportedly suggested.

Of course, if China took stricter control over what can be sold in their wet markets, this mutated virus and others may not have jumped species then mutated to human --> human transmission.

Stable doors and horses come to mind.

Reading the paper that nobody reads it appears that Asia is now struggling with another surge.