Joan Bakewell vaccine legal challenge

Here you go MissA. For anyone counting, this is the third time I've posted this, sorry. But it hasn't changed.

So we’re left with Pfizer. None of us were at the MHRA meeting so we can’t know what was said. But what do we know? We know that after 21 days the effectiveness of the Pfizer one is 89%. Not 52% as is often bandied about, because 52% is the average over the first 21 days, because immune response takes some time to happen. Although 52% would still be very good. After 21 days, immune response does not fall off a cliff, at least it doesn’t with immunity in any other situation, so its reasonable to assume the same is true here. Its reasonable to assume that the immunity given by the Pfizer vaccines works the same as immunity from any other source.
On balance of risks, with hundreds of people dying every day and tens of thousands contracting COVID, the MHRA have decided that the risk of a small reduction in immunity, and the risk of vaccine resistant mutations, are outweighed by the risk that thousands of people will die and our NHS will collapse. Its worth noting that is always the MHRA who decide on how a drug will be used, not the manufacturer. (Based on the manufacturer's trials, of course)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting until months of research are in to show us about the interval, and we don’t have the luxury of rolling out the vaccine slower that we could.

I particularly like the bit on the crowdfunding website about how this undermines the MHRA when it was the MHRA who made the decision. Doesn't inspire confidence in Dame Joan's lawyers.

There are 3 supporters listed on the crowdfunding page, one is the BMJ who are asking for the data to be published, not for anything to be changed. They are also complaining about the possible extra work it will cause doctors to re-book existing appointments. The Welsh BMA are only interested in it for front line health care workers. Dr Fauci says that the second dose is important. Nobody's arguing with him.

What’s the evidence for changing the schedule?

There isn’t much for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, as trials did not compare different dose spacing or compare one with two doses. The trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine did include different spacing between doses, finding that a longer gap (two to three months) led to a greater immune response, but the overall participant numbers were small. In the UK study 59% (1407 of 2377) of the participants who had two standard doses received the second dose between nine and 12 weeks.

This is from the BMJ, which also states that a shortage of vaccines was why.

There are lots of other credible bodies listed on the crowd funding page, with links to their statements.

She should take up knitting and settle down quietly by the fire.
???

I do wonder if she knows what she's talking about regarding this. She doesn't appear to have read up on the science.

Crossed posts Alegrias

As usual, stupid decisions and bungling from the UK government

It was the Joint Committee on Vaccination & Immunisation which made this recommendation Farnorth.
I would have been far more concerned if the government had ignored them rather than acting on their advice.

Not a decision of the UK government but of the medical authorities. As has been explained on here many, many times.

Scaremongering will be the thing that puts people off.

Luckygirl, hearing that the two doses are not to be given as the makers recommended could be the thing that puts people off.

Like others on here, I'd be very happy to wait longer for a correctly administered vaccine if it meant health and care staff could have it first.

As usual, stupid decisions and bungling from the UK government.

Anything that puts one person off having the vaccine is a bad thing and impacts on all of us.

She should take up knitting and settle down quietly by the fire.

I wonder if Ms Bakewell has read any of the scientific papers. She's not a virologist or even a scientist as far as I recollect.

I'm happy to wait longer for a 2nd vaccine as long as it means healthcare workers get theirs as a priority.
Although I'd be glad to know if the 1st vaccine is on its way as no-one round here has any idea when it may arrive.

I'm not suggesting anything.

I'm just saying that I support what miss Bakewell is doing.

Whitewavemark2

The ERG who run the country are demanding that lockdown be eased. Profit before health every time.

WW2 I'm not sure if the ERG/CRG are that interested in the economy they just want some of the limelight.

They had it for years over Brexit and now they want in on Covid - they're just disrupters, trouble-makers and contrarians.

I doubt if any of them have a scientific background.

MissA Plenty of comments right here on gransnet, if you want to trawl around and look. Lots of people saying their mental health is suffering.
Ah. In your earlier post you seemed to be suggesting that anyone who was happy to wait 12 weeks for their second dose and opposed Joan Bakewell’s application for Judicial Review, also thought that the lockdown restrictions were excessive.

It isn’t fair to lump them together like that.

That's totally ridiculous!

The ERG who run the country are demanding that lockdown be eased. Profit before health every time.

Plenty of comments right here on gransnet, if you want to trawl around and look.

Lots of people saying their mental health is suffering.
Even someone sending a message, telling another person off for breaking the rules.

I find it incredible that people get angry about their rights being impinged upon by lockdown, but accept a huge uturn regarding what is to be introduced into their bodies
Who is angry about lockdown MissA?

Well, I'm hoping Joan Bakewells lawyers have had some response before then, really.

Easy to do, and I’m glad essex2020s partner is okay.

You should get your vaccination very soon now, where I am I know staff were registering through their own organisations and going to the mass vaccination centres, the vast majority have appointments now.
The care home residents vaccinations have started now here, but are taking a while to get through because there isn’t enough Astra-Zeneca vaccine to go round yet, we’ve been promised there will be more next week.

With regard to the post by essex, his partner is doing well.

I've heard sod all about my vaccination (I'm also in Essex, and also work in care)

Then we are definitely at cross purposes..

Are we at cross purposes, I was referring to the post from essex2020 above on this page, not the reason Joan Bakewell had launched the case?

Her crowdfunding page explains her reasons, just to see if it's safe and legal.

I find it incredible that people get angry about their rights being impinged upon by lockdown, but accept a huge uturn regarding what is to be introduced into their bodies.

I don’t know, it sounded more personal, maybe essex2020 will confirm.

I presume she is asking on behalf of those people.

Good on her, I say.
It's right to question things that are "done to us" without our expressed permission.

Partly MissAdventure, but also whether she should mix the vaccines, which the scientists don’t advise.
Care workers are in exactly the same position as everybody else in having to wait for 12 weeks, so her partner is no more disadvantaged?