Joan Bakewell vaccine legal challenge

Luckygirl, hearing that the two doses are not to be given as the makers recommended could be the thing that puts people off.

Like others on here, I'd be very happy to wait longer for a correctly administered vaccine if it meant health and care staff could have it first.

As usual, stupid decisions and bungling from the UK government.

Not a decision of the UK government but of the medical authorities. As has been explained on here many, many times.

Scaremongering will be the thing that puts people off.

As usual, stupid decisions and bungling from the UK government

It was the Joint Committee on Vaccination & Immunisation which made this recommendation Farnorth.
I would have been far more concerned if the government had ignored them rather than acting on their advice.

Crossed posts Alegrias

She should take up knitting and settle down quietly by the fire.
???

I do wonder if she knows what she's talking about regarding this. She doesn't appear to have read up on the science.

What’s the evidence for changing the schedule?

There isn’t much for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, as trials did not compare different dose spacing or compare one with two doses. The trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine did include different spacing between doses, finding that a longer gap (two to three months) led to a greater immune response, but the overall participant numbers were small. In the UK study 59% (1407 of 2377) of the participants who had two standard doses received the second dose between nine and 12 weeks.

This is from the BMJ, which also states that a shortage of vaccines was why.

There are lots of other credible bodies listed on the crowd funding page, with links to their statements.

Here you go MissA. For anyone counting, this is the third time I've posted this, sorry. But it hasn't changed.

So we’re left with Pfizer. None of us were at the MHRA meeting so we can’t know what was said. But what do we know? We know that after 21 days the effectiveness of the Pfizer one is 89%. Not 52% as is often bandied about, because 52% is the average over the first 21 days, because immune response takes some time to happen. Although 52% would still be very good. After 21 days, immune response does not fall off a cliff, at least it doesn’t with immunity in any other situation, so its reasonable to assume the same is true here. Its reasonable to assume that the immunity given by the Pfizer vaccines works the same as immunity from any other source.
On balance of risks, with hundreds of people dying every day and tens of thousands contracting COVID, the MHRA have decided that the risk of a small reduction in immunity, and the risk of vaccine resistant mutations, are outweighed by the risk that thousands of people will die and our NHS will collapse. Its worth noting that is always the MHRA who decide on how a drug will be used, not the manufacturer. (Based on the manufacturer's trials, of course)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting until months of research are in to show us about the interval, and we don’t have the luxury of rolling out the vaccine slower that we could.

I particularly like the bit on the crowdfunding website about how this undermines the MHRA when it was the MHRA who made the decision. Doesn't inspire confidence in Dame Joan's lawyers.

There are 3 supporters listed on the crowdfunding page, one is the BMJ who are asking for the data to be published, not for anything to be changed. They are also complaining about the possible extra work it will cause doctors to re-book existing appointments. The Welsh BMA are only interested in it for front line health care workers. Dr Fauci says that the second dose is important. Nobody's arguing with him.

I've not so much got a problem with the delay, but firstly, is it so unreasonable to ask for data?

My second reason is that the last few years of my daughters life were made even harder by admin mistakes, prescriptions going missing, turning up to appointments to be told she wasn't in their list, Macmillan nurses who never turned up.

She missed out on her only and last chance of a clinical trial due to a letter being overlooked.
I watched her with a phone in each hand; her hospital and the Marsden both denying it was their "fault".

I just wonder how on earth people are going to be recalled in a timely manner, when some have had one, some two vaccinations, people possibly catching covid a second time..

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter MissA. My story doesn't compare but I took my local doctors surgery to the ombudsman because one of the doctors missed a serious problem I had and I ended up in hospital, and with a long term condition that still affects me 9 years on. One of the receptionists lied to me, that was proven and she was disciplined.

I'm sure there will be hiccups in the rollout and that unfortunately some people will be missed. But they are off to a good start and so we have to hope that this will continue.

Yes, I do hope it all works out, but ten years of frustration has taught me to be cautious of embracing how marvellous it's all going to be.

My girl never got to do any of those things people do when they're dying., like memory boxes and so on.

Every single day of the last few months was one cock up after another, admin wise.

I suspect her motives.

The Government is certainly not above criticism on many counts but in this instance they have taken advice from the scientists and virologists who know what they are talking about.

I do hope she is not doing this for political reasons and holds up the programme for us all.
I'm not sure what her Party Leader's view is on her actions.

For Miss A

Thank you.

I can understand how you feel, MissAdventure and your reasoning.

The thing is, we have (eventually!) got off to a flying start, but if anyone's foot comes off the paddle for a minute it could end up such a mess - and I'm afraid that is what will happen, once the first wave are "done".

Someone has to keep track of who had what and when, people reaching the upper and lower age ranges, deaths, moves, refusals, new cases, recurrences, changes in mobility, people becoming clinically vulnerable when they weren't before...

See Algerias told you I was by nature a misery guts.

Peddle. Not paddle.

Pedal. That's the one.

She should take up knitting and settle down quietly by the fire.

Luckygirl LOL!

At least you didn't go for "poodle" MissA

That was next on my list.

Luckygirl

Anything that puts one person off having the vaccine is a bad thing and impacts on all of us.

She should take up knitting and settle down quietly by the fire.

Truly surprised this last sentence came from you Lucky. So ageist really.

Not one single country, I believe, has chosen to ignore the researchers/manufacturers guidelines and delay second dose. Why?

So, political reasons to deflect from criticism of the handling of the crisis - or real medically based decision. Medics in the UK certainly disagree, and medics all over the world even more so.

I am glad Joan has taken action.

Truly surprised this last sentence came from you Lucky. So ageist really.

Did you really take that seriously, biba?

??? ?

Headline : In Europe, more countries delay second vaccine doses or mull plans to do so.

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/world/second-covid-vaccine-delay.html

It wasn't the government who made this decision it was the MHRA. How many times?

p.s. I'm much younger than Dame Joan and I love knitting by the fire.

So does DD.

p.s. I'm much younger than Dame Joan and I love knitting by the fire.
I told my friend I'd taken up crochet and she exclaimed with horror "I'm not that desperate yet!"