How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

nightowl

Forcing people to have any form of medical treatment against their will is very different from forcing people to wear seat belts etc. There are stringent legal safeguards against this, for example for those who are detained under the Mental Health Act or those deemed to lack mental capacity.

Be very, very careful before advocating such a step, it would be a very slippery slope indeed.

Which is why my original post started with the statement that I believed that we couldn't do it and that education was the way forward.

Nonetheless it bears thought that we have one group of people who refuse to do something when it could fatally affect others, and we have another group of people who refuse to do something when it could fatally affect others.

Tweedle24

There was an interesting discussion on the radio this morning surrounding whether it would be legal for employers to insist on their employees being vaccinated.

Apparently, it is a grey area of the law. It might be possible, for example, for care home owners/managers to refuse to employ unvaccinated staff.

It will be interesting to see whether that ever comes about and how the first court case goes.

It is an interesting "grey area" although there would have to be a major shift in existing law to see this through.

There are no statutory provisions that could force individuals to become vaccinated. The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 specifically states that members of the public should not be compelled to undergo any mandatory medical treatment, including vaccinations.

I would suggest that any Employer who tries to force this through at present would see the full wrath of the courts at a tribunal.

I was so encouraged to hear on the news yesterday that the vaccine take up rate of the over 70s is well over 95%.

Let’s hope the same enthusiasm continues throughout the ages.

Hetty58 I think the campaign you propose is already in progress - and I think it is shameful. There are more subtle ways of "forcing" compliance than the less subtle ones of tattooing people, denying them access to facilities, etc, etc.

JenniferEccles

The AZ is still thought to be effective in preventing serious illness from the South African variant.

I hope people are not put off having the vaccine as we can’t choose which one to have. Widespread vaccination remains the way out of this and the take up needs to be as high as possible.

JenniferEccles I read today that the Pfizer is more effective than the AZ vaccine.
Oxford Covid vaccine has 10% efficacy against South African variant - very little protection against mild to moderate infection. Though they expressed hope that – in theory – it would still offer significant protection against more serious infection

suziewoozie A link to the article I read about this.
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/08/oxford-covid-vaccine-10-effective-south-african-variant-study

If we know them personally, I think we should treat them as 'outcasts' by never inviting them or mixing with them - and explaining the reason!

janeainsworth

Sorry Blinko I misinterpreted your post.

No worries.

Sorry Blinko I misinterpreted your post.

janeainsworth

Blinko I agree re Gov't ministers. But Sarah Gilbert? That's the woman working on the Oxford AZ vaccine? Would you believe what she says?

Sarah Gilbert is Professor of Vaccinology at the University of Oxford, so yes, I would believe her.
Scientists like her have not only their own reputation, but the reputation of the institute they are linked with, to uphold.
You seem to think cynically that because her groundbreaking work is linked to a commercial organisation, that’s a reason to distrust her.
Applied science necessarily depends commercial organisations to develop and market the products that come out of their research.

No distrust as far as I'm concerned. I would have attached a link, but not sure how to do it from a tv programme, which is where I saw the interview.

varian

Those who refuse a covid vaccine are endangering themselves and everyone else they might come in to contact with.

That is analagouus to the drink drivers, not the seatbelt refusers,.

These people could be responsible for the deaths of others.

We should ask them - "if you infected someone who died, how could you live with yourself?"

varian you ask .....how would you live with yourself if somebody you infected died? ...what about the fact that you, after being vaccinated can still pass it on to others ? The vaccine is not going to be the holy grail unfortunately .

grannysyb

I would also believe Hugh Pennington, a highly respected scientist, getting tired of all these doubters.

Why would you believe him? He got it wrong about the new variant being more transmissible. He's a bacteriologist not a virologist.

I was a doubter.
I kept asking if the vaccines had been tested on older people....

It's not a matter of doubting, it's a matter of knowing who is to be believed amongst the scientists.

I would also believe Hugh Pennington, a highly respected scientist, getting tired of all these doubters.

Blinko

suziewoozie

JenniferEccles

It’s a message from the vaccine minister Nadhim Zahawl suziewoozie

There is also a piece in today’s Mail from a Professor Hugh Pennington who states he is an 82 year old with “a lifetime’s experience in viruses and vaccines “
He goes on to say that he has had the AZ vaccine so has a personal as well as professional interest in getting the facts straight.

I meant a link to a report of research evidence that AZ prevents serious outcome against the SA variant. I really can’t take a Govt minister as an evidence source ?

I agree re Gov't ministers. But Sarah Gilbert? That's the woman working on the Oxford AZ vaccine? Would you believe what she says?

Of course I would. I’ve never said otherwise - the difference is I read her actual words in context and not a govt spun version.

Blinko I agree re Gov't ministers. But Sarah Gilbert? That's the woman working on the Oxford AZ vaccine? Would you believe what she says?

Sarah Gilbert is Professor of Vaccinology at the University of Oxford, so yes, I would believe her.
Scientists like her have not only their own reputation, but the reputation of the institute they are linked with, to uphold.
You seem to think cynically that because her groundbreaking work is linked to a commercial organisation, that’s a reason to distrust her.
Applied science necessarily depends commercial organisations to develop and market the products that come out of their research.

suziewoozie

JenniferEccles

It’s a message from the vaccine minister Nadhim Zahawl suziewoozie

There is also a piece in today’s Mail from a Professor Hugh Pennington who states he is an 82 year old with “a lifetime’s experience in viruses and vaccines “
He goes on to say that he has had the AZ vaccine so has a personal as well as professional interest in getting the facts straight.

I meant a link to a report of research evidence that AZ prevents serious outcome against the SA variant. I really can’t take a Govt minister as an evidence source ?

I agree re Gov't ministers. But Sarah Gilbert? That's the woman working on the Oxford AZ vaccine? Would you believe what she says?

Would all the posters on here who want to force people to have this particular vaccine, also be just as insistent that no child could attend a state school or nursery unless ALL the childhood vaccinations on offer could be proven to have been had???

I would be interested in the legalities of that.

That's a hardcore WI group!

I heard a story this morning about a woman who claimed the WI were 'forcing' her to have a vaccine she didn't want.
It seems her group had decided to exclude people who weren't vaccinated (without a good medical reason) from their meetings.
No forcing really, either she has the vaccine or leaves the WI.
My U3A is mostly used by people whose age means they will have had the vaccine by the time we manage to get meetings going again. I am wondering if we should use the same argument

JenniferEccles

It’s a message from the vaccine minister Nadhim Zahawl suziewoozie

There is also a piece in today’s Mail from a Professor Hugh Pennington who states he is an 82 year old with “a lifetime’s experience in viruses and vaccines “
He goes on to say that he has had the AZ vaccine so has a personal as well as professional interest in getting the facts straight.

I meant a link to a report of research evidence that AZ prevents serious outcome against the SA variant. I really can’t take a Govt minister as an evidence source ?

Sarah Gilbert said much the same too.

It’s a message from the vaccine minister Nadhim Zahawl suziewoozie

There is also a piece in today’s Mail from a Professor Hugh Pennington who states he is an 82 year old with “a lifetime’s experience in viruses and vaccines “
He goes on to say that he has had the AZ vaccine so has a personal as well as professional interest in getting the facts straight.

JenniferEccles

The AZ is still thought to be effective in preventing serious illness from the South African variant.

I hope people are not put off having the vaccine as we can’t choose which one to have. Widespread vaccination remains the way out of this and the take up needs to be as high as possible.

Have you got a link to this please?

The AZ is still thought to be effective in preventing serious illness from the South African variant.

I hope people are not put off having the vaccine as we can’t choose which one to have. Widespread vaccination remains the way out of this and the take up needs to be as high as possible.