Friendship vs vaccination

I have always felt that vaccination, mask-wearing, social distancing, etc were moral as well as practical issues. As well as protecting ourselves, we should do all we can to protect other people. However, there's now a strong personal reason why I feel resentful towards those who focus on on their right to choose, rather than on reducing the burden on the NHS.

My daughter has cancer. She needs another operation followed by radiotherapy. At the beginning of February, she was told it would be 6 weeks before she would get a date for the operation, because theatre availability was drastically reduced due to Covid. Then she was told it would be "many months." Her consultant said she has already waited too long, plus she urgently needs the radiotherapy which she can't have till after surgery. He got her classified as urgent, and she has now been told it may be mid- to late-April but that can't be guaranteed. Basically, we don't know when it would be. The lady who rang her was sympathetic but said that their department was only getting theatre space for 1 operation per week, due to Covid. The consultant said that he has 160 urgent cases on his list. He said that people will die.

Our girl can't wait and risk it spreading. No cancer sufferer can wait. Due to complications from the previous surgery, it looked like we wouldn't be able to get her a private operation. We have been terrified. Now it seems that we may have found a specialist who can do it. We aren't well off, and our daughter doesn't earn much as a charity worker, but we can get enough together to pay for the operation. We just hope that, when she goes for her consultation, he says that he can do it.

Reducing the number of people needing to be hospitalised for Covid won't only reduce deaths from the virus. It will reduce deaths from cancer and other diseases by reducing the huge demand that Covid places on hospital resources.

People may exert their freedom to choose to risk their own lives. Unfortunately they are choosing to risk other people's too.

Why are you allowing this to come between you. Your friend is allowed her own opinion and course of action. You do what is right for you and she will do what is right for her. I honestly don’t think it’s any of your business what she does. She’s a grown up and so are you. I get very upset by this shame /judgy culture that seems to be getting more and more viscous. And before you judge me I am booked for my jab next week.

As someone who is CEV I’ve spent most of the last 12 months indoors and shielding. I think that alongside the wonderful acts of kindness and selflessness during the pandemic, the situation has also shown the ‘I’m alright Jack’ character side of a lot of people. Vaccines are available, they’re free and they will undoubtedly eventually offer a way out of lockdown. Myself and my partner ended up contracting Covid a few weeks ago after a short hospital stay, and it was a truly awful experience even with partial vaccination - one which I have no desire to repeat. This virus is extremely unpleasant even in it’s ‘mild’ form, it’s a killer to those whose immune systems aren’t up to the fight, and to refuse to be vaccinated is selfish. Having experienced it at first hand I dont understand why anyone would want to risk either contracting it or unknowingly passing it on, and any of my friends or family who refuse to be vaccinated wont be getting over my doorstep any time soon.

Apparently Israel had a low take up until they said in order to do various things you had to prove you have been vaccinated. Once they realised they couldn’t go on holiday, etc etc.they changed their minds. Can see that happening here.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PamQS I have a son like this too !
I don't agree with this way of thinking but do think it's up to each individual to decide....we aren't the vaccine police !

Well..... I'm fascinated by the variable interpretations of the 'friend' relationship. I have a little book tucked away somewhere entitled 'A friend is someone who loves you'. When lockdown is relaxed and we start to mingle gradually and ever so slightly are we all going to ascertain whether passing strangers or fellow travellers have been vaccinated? A little bit impractical methinks. I regularly disagree with my pal but not for one minute would I disrespect her right to her opinion even though I might tell her she's absolutely nuts (and vice versa!) and on we go. Find some of the judgemental stuff I'm reading here positively awful.

Keep friends we all need them especially at the moment but if the conversation comes up again just say you hope enough of your friends are public-spirited enough to have the vac and she can sit under their umbrella when it is all over.
I can remember this been said by a nurse during a heated discussion about vaccines in an antenatal class many years ago. Quite a few changed their minds.

Some people just do not like to be told what to do when it suits them, ask her why she drives on the left side of the road.

Hi, I have a antivaxer friend, posts on social media. She is a good friend that I have known for most of my life. I felt very exasperated over the posts she was putting on social media, it even made me doubt the vaccine. An ex nurse too. I feel every one is entitled to their own opinion and respect that and I actually blocked her posts, we have spoken and she respects my thoughts on the subject and I don't think our friendship has been affected, it does concern me she isn't getting vaccinated but that's her choice...

I had the vaccine yesterday and had to have a doctor attend and approve it for me due to a rare immune system response that I have to any that touches me.
I had a rough night last night but nothing any worse than any one else has had in fact less than some of the worse side effects that other people have had.
When l think of the amount of chemotherapy that my mother lived on and the awful sickness and many other horrible side effects that she suffered just to stay alive for many years l get angry about these selfish people antivaxers.
I had told my mum that if ever I get the type of cancer that she had l didn’t know that I could be as strong as she was to take all of the drugs necessary to keep her alive.
These antivaxers should be made to sign a declaration not to be put before others and go to the back of the queue for treatment.
People who need treatment and are fighting for their lives with cancer and other serious conditions need to have treatment and care before the idiots that take life for granted.
I have excluded my neighbour from my life because of her ignorance expecting me to mix with her as the numbers were rising.
I have no time or tolerance for ignorance.
If she was my friend l would put her on hold until she was vaccinated and tell her so.

Maybe the key word here is choice, and we are fortunate to live in a society where we still have this. I too have a friend that won’t have the vaccine because she doesn’t know what is in it.
I have known her for 45 years, and she has questioned me in the past why don’t you take the pill.? And latterly HRT. My answer, “I don’t know what is in it”
We agree to disagree and life goes on.

Perhaps if they were on their death beds taking their last breath they might think
“If only”

Being vaccinated not only reduces my own chance of serious illness but appears to make me less likely to infect others if I do contract COVID. So I would avoid like the plague anyone, friend or not, who refuses to have the vaccine if they can have it. Otherwise any kind of normal life goes on being impossible.

I was vaccinated 2 weeks ago and like your friend I was adamant I wasn't going to go. Mainly because I'm claustrophobic and i didn't think I could cope. My OH came with me because he knew I wouldn't be fit to drive after it. I was in and out in 9 minutes, he timed it,but I was in a state so much that the nurse asked if I was asthmatic - just the beginnings of a panic attack. Could your friend be similarly afflicted. I only spoke to my DH about it because he is also claustrophobic and knew I would freak but I didn't tell any of my friends. People are different and we need to give each other some space and cut some a break.

I can't honestly believe the majority of views on here why should it matter if she gets vaccinated or not ,how is it affecting anyone but her ,if I thought a friend could fall out with me over my own personal views I'd have to think that she wasn't a great friend anyway !

Because this is a matter of the good of the majority and not merely a personal option. Given that a proportion of the population have health issues which mean they can’t be vaccinated, we do need the rest of us to have it.

I agree with you Betty18.

Yes, it would be very desirable if everyone who is able would take the vaccine offered, but it is not compulsory and we, supposedly, live in a free society so it is their choice even if we heartily disagree with their reasoning.

So do I Delila. ( I had my vaccination in January).

Everyone I know is mad for it so no falling out. Just wish my DD would have given my GD her childhood vaccinations as she did my GS. She’s 5 and hasn’t had them yet ? DD says she’s going to take her but when the pandemic started she didn’t want to. I guess there’s still time. She gets cross if I try to discuss it with her.

Some of our parents and grandparents went through wars. Suffered unbelievable fear and hardship. This is a vaccine not a year in the trenches.
Why are some people determined to stay apart from the whole good of the nation?
If this happened in 1944 we would all be in an awful state still waiting for vaccines.
I’m proud of our achievements in rolling out the vaccine and proud to have had my vaccine delivered to me by a Lieutenant Commander from the British Navy working alongside the NHS for the purpose of helping to get the vaccine to as many people as possible.
If it’s a case of conflicting illness l understand but people who won’t be told what to do are pathetic and morally wrong.
That’s not the kind of friend I want beside me.

Read Bluecats heartbreaking post.
I would be beside myself if I were her and this is what lm talking about.

Patsie

I have a friend who I've known for many years. We get on very well although our views on many subjects are completely opposite. She can be very stubborn and has refused to have the vaccination although she has no medical or religious reasons. She just doesn't like to be told what to do. We had a rather heated discussion about it, at a distance, obviously, and it seems to have cast a cloud over our friendship. I know it is absolutely her choice, but I find it a bit selfish. Why do I feel so bad about the way I feel and how it's affected our friendship. Has anyone else had this dilemma.

Limit you time with irrational people.
No one is telling her what to do.
She can have the vaccination or not.
You have to aks why the hell not?

A lot of questions need to be answered when, hopefully, the virus is less of a risk to us all. Very difficult to get the response right at first when virus was such an unknown quantity and hit us all so hard. I have always been concerned about the many seriously ill people waiting for urgent life saving treatment. I thought the urgent construction of the Nightingale hospitals was to free up the existing beds for such cases but no, this doesn't appear to have happened....most Nightingale hospitals appear to be under used, not enough staff it seems. In my opinion beds, wards and staffing have been cut to the bone in the past leaving us totally ill equipped to treat a Pandemic leaving these urgent Cancer patients, for example, untreated. I am not sure that the priority has always been correct.
Heartbreaking as these cases are it doesn't alter the fact that vacination is not compulsory and neither is it a total panacea. Mutations will appear and the vaccine will have to be tweaked to keep up and we will have to live with this virus at some level for a very long time I fear. These people waiting for urgent treatment have to be prioritised at some point, and soon.

What proof do we have that people who tell us “I’ve had my vaccine” actually have had it. They most likely have, but I’m just trying to point out, “the possibility” that perhaps they haven’t! so how would we know once we get back to our “normal day to day lives” are we going to ask for proof ( if they actually go ahead with vaccine passports) are we going to have to carry these around with us to prove to our friends and family, “we’re jabbed” There are more people who worry about getting Covid than worry about passing it on, there are people who worry about getting the vaccine more than getting Covid, maybe because some people are listening to friends or colleagues who’ve had it and not even known, or it’s been mild, these same people have seen the worst scenarios, and for some reason their fear of “the unknown” in relation to the vaccine, is still greater than their fear of catching Covid. Why is that? we don’t really know? we have opinions, but not facts to assimilate another persons fear.
Most of these people have one thing in common “pride” they don’t want to admit their fear, or it’s easier to hide your fear as rationalising, or defend your fear of “the unknown” as nearly everyone has experienced fear of the unknown e.g. childbirth, exams, operations etc.
Your friend might be giving the impression it’s because “she doesn’t like to be told what to do” or she might really fear “the unknown” consequences (which might never happen) from taking the jab.
Both my friend and I, stated at the beginning we both didn’t want to take it, I quote “didn’t want to” .... but my job means I morally had to, so I did. So I’ve taken something that I didn’t want to, I’m not over the moon about it, or feel I’m a “better person” or “less selfish” than my friend who still hasn’t taken it. I don’t donate blood, I haven’t got a donor card, and there’s a heck of a lot of people in the world dying because I’m not “doing my bit” in these situations, which I totally empathise with.
So, until my friend decides what SHE wants to do with her body and her life, I will be her friend. I will invite her over for tea, go with her to whatever coffee shop lets us BOTH in, and when I see her and before I leave her, I will hug her..... she might be foolish, she might for what the future might prove to be, “the wise one”... but whatever and however our lives end, it will end as friends.