Am I out of step with other pensioners?

Franbern here’s an analysis which identifies incorrect social media reporting of death statistics for the UK. The number of deaths was higher in 2020.
www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mortality-idUSKBN28V2T2

Also there have been devastating cuts from central government to social care too. If you have a social care system that is 'just about managing' or not quite managing at all and you throw in a pandemic that for want of a better word, prioritises its attack on the vulnerable, can we even protect them?

I agree that the reason the NHS need protecting was because it had been underfunded for decades. In the same way that disadvantaged families have suffered the most because of the underfunding of mental health services, of community support programmes like Sure Start (wiped out in a stroke of the pen) and housing.

Just to add to my post - comment about Lockdown being to /Protect NHS'!! Well, if the NHS had not been continuously robbed over past decade of money with so many of their formally 'in-house; services being sent out to privatised companies who then needed to ensure their profits; if even a percentage of the thirty two billion pounds spent on an non-working Track & Trace system had been given to provide more staff and facilities in the NHS, then there would not have been the need to protect it.

It does need protecting - from the likes of those in power at present. Still waiting for some of that large sum of money listed on the side of the bus to come the way of the NHS!!!

I have lots if the same thoughts as the poster. I have had my life, and am so very, very concerned as to the very long-term effects this last year is going to have on my adult children, and - even more - my g.children. They will be paying for the economic fall-out for , probably, several decades - long after I will have gone.

Most pensioners have actually come out of this year better off financially - as they have stayed at home, still go their pension money paid into their banks, and cut their expenditure ( no holidays, meals out, visits to theatres, cinema or, even to the hairdressers). So many younger people will be suffering due to unemployment, lack of employment prospects, furlough payments being less than normal wages, etc. etc.

Recently saw a table from ONS - so think it can be accepted as reasonably accurate that actually shows that 2020 was about 20th for death rate per hundred thousand population in the last thirty years. Just gives something to think about. Did try to copy and paste that table on here, but my computer skills were not up to it.r

The lockdowns and particularly the closure of schools have had the worst impact on those family already at a disadvantage - through poverty, poor housing, ill health (both physical and mental).

Let us hope that some notice of this will be taken by the government, who has systematically stripped away those services that were designed to support those who are disadvantaged and to support families in a preventive way.

But many families have stood up to the pandemic's limitations on their lives and sought positives: in the new ways that children have had to learn, in being more involved in their children's learning, in coping with all this against all the odds as an example to their children of how to face life's vicissitudes.

It has been particularly hard for me as I lost my OH at the beginning of the pandemic and had to adapt to living alone in a far harsher way than would have been the case if I could have spent lots of time with my family, and continued to care for GC. It has been (and is) bloody tough. But I absolutely accept the need to observe the limitations that the virus places on me, so that I can protect others and the NHS.

But the idea that children are being "sacrificed" for the sake older people is not one I can buy into. Even supposing that the benefits of the lockdowns solely benefitted older people (which is clearly not the case) I do not base someone's worth on their age. Every human being has intrinsic worth and should be respected and cared for.

We are all working together to protect those most vulnerable, which include young and old, black and ethnic minority people of all ages, people with disabilities, frontline workers etc. There is no hierarchy of worth; nor a competition to see who is sacrificing the most. We simply all do our bit.

Doodledog

*I do think that the older generations have been totally selfish*
And what would you have had the older generations do? All any of us - young, old or in-between - is follow the rules set out by the government. Stay home, wear a mask if you have to go out, socially distance, get tested, get vaccinated when your turn comes round.

If that is totally selfish, what does unselfish behaviour look like?

Unselfish behaviour is six foot under in a wooden box, so it would appear.

GrannyRose15

^Unfortunately, there will be economic effects making themselves felt for a long time, and children whose schooling has been affected, but these things are necessary evils in this situation and preferable to a vastly increased death-rate due to Covid19.^

They are certainly not necessary evils. The long term costs should have been weighed against the short term benefits. Had anyone done that analysis we would not have had all the restrictions that have caused so much misery.

I do think that the older generations have been totally selfish.

What kind of calculation would you use to weigh somebody's life against a "cost" to the economy?

All any of us . . . have done is follow the rules . . .

I do think that the older generations have been totally selfish
And what would you have had the older generations do? All any of us - young, old or in-between - is follow the rules set out by the government. Stay home, wear a mask if you have to go out, socially distance, get tested, get vaccinated when your turn comes round.

If that is totally selfish, what does unselfish behaviour look like?

We've kept the NHS functioning for all those who may need it, of all ages.

No we haven't. We have turned it into a covid only service to the detriment of many people with other illnesses. Cancer care, maternity care, orthopaedic care have all been diminished - to name just a few areas of medicine that have not functioned as well as they should have done..

Unfortunately, there will be economic effects making themselves felt for a long time, and children whose schooling has been affected, but these things are necessary evils in this situation and preferable to a vastly increased death-rate due to Covid19.

They are certainly not necessary evils. The long term costs should have been weighed against the short term benefits. Had anyone done that analysis we would not have had all the restrictions that have caused so much misery.

I do think that the older generations have been totally selfish.

repat

I'm trying to find out if I'm the only one who is troubled by the fact that my children, grandchildren and friends are suffering in order to "protect" me.
I am an older person, but lucky to be fairly healthy.
I can't help wondering - if the government had offered me a longer life (no guarantees) but in exchange I would have to agree that my children and grandchildren be locked away for an indefinite period and suffer financial deprivation thereafter, possibly for decades, would I have accepted it? I wouldn't, but maybe I'm out of step with others of my generation. What do you think?

No repat. You are not entirely out of step. You have voiced my opinion exactly.
Strange though, that when I said as much to my son he was surprised and said it was a novel idea.
Had I been given the choice back in March last year I would definitely have said - "Let those that aren't at risk carry on as normal and leave us oldies to look after ourselves." Far less damage to the economy and to children's lives would have ensued.

Dinahmo I know that.

Maddyone Many young people, as with older people will have lost jobs as a result of Brexit. Increasing numbers of people are out of work, some because covid has meant that their businesses have had to close, but not all. There have been several examples of businesses closing or reducing staff numbers because they have lost a part of their market.

This virus is a life and death situation......

And that is why we had to have lockdown. But I wish all older people would just acknowledge what this has done to our younger generations. Mental health amongst the younger members of society will be a huge issue going forward, as will achievement, although that can be managed. Some of our young people have lost parents or other members of their families, some have lost several members of their families. Socially they will need to re establish relationships, learn again social skills. Some young people have lost their jobs, or their career prospects. University experiences have not been the wonderful and exciting learning experiences our generation had, but instead the lonely life of a single student locked in a bedroom with a computer for company. Many slightly older had to cancel their weddings and graduation ceremonies, and couldn’t even attend the funeral if a grandparent died. These are the experiences of thousands of our young people and children, and we should all own it. They did it for us.

I think you need to apologise jill66 I looked again at my post and I never said my daughter was the same age as OP
I was commenting to a completely different post on this thread by another poster I dont mind people disagreeing with me it makes for good debate, I just ask you read the post properly.

Jill66 Why are you baffled. I am 63 and my daughter is 44. My comments were to Bbbface who I felt made a insensitive comment. My daughter is the same age as her friends who she mentioned in her post.
I also never made a comment to the OP. I suggest you read my post again.

Just to clarify: I don't have a problem with someone being worried about children's mental health. My problem is that people are dying from this virus. This virus is a life and death situation and her comment about being mortified is insenitive to those who lost loved ones during this difficult time.

M0nica, I don't think 'we' (they) managed it reasonably well - at all.

With the exception of the highly successful vaccination scheme, all I see is a series of delays, mistakes, half-measures, u-turns and gross mismanagement - totally embarrassing!

ShelaghALLEN

Rafichagran: well said. My AC would also be horrified at Bbbface comment because it was very insensitive and self centered.

Which is ironic considering how many here seem to be unwilling to accept what younger generations have lost.

Some willingly, some not.

The real losers are younger mothers/mothers of children. They are under much more pressure than before.

My Mother in law said she felt she 'went on holiday' when she was evacuated to her 'Aunts' farm. She said she never understood the enormity of what happened until she was much older and had her own children

Bbbface, I understand the sacrifices my grandchildren have made. They've really missed their friends and school (except for my teenage grandson, who's positively thrived at home).

As a retired teacher, I know full well that their education has been seriously disrupted, but it's not entirely a negative experience. They've become more creative and self-reliant, through necessity.

Of course, generally, their experience has been mild - compared to many children evacuated, during wartime, to live with complete strangers - with the real danger of death!

It's simply not as simple as children 'saving' the lives of the elderly, though. We've kept the NHS functioning for all those who may need it, of all ages.

Rafichagran: epat is talking about pensioners ( the title of the thread) so it’s quite normal that you don’t understand what she’s talking about, as you are still working. Epat is a pensioner herself ( read the title again «other pensioners») so I don’t really see how your daughter can have the same age as the OP if you are 63- I’m baffled !!!!

Shelaghallen: I don’t quite understand how concern about children and grandchildren can be called «self-centered «Maybe you can explain? I respect everyone’s point of view and am willing to listen.