Summer holidays abroad ‘extremely unlikely’ as third wave hits Europe

Most people here are staying within the country. Problem is, everything is getting booked out. Some friends were planning to travel with us in August up to the Kimberleys but they couldn’t get on the tour because they tried to book just one day after we had booked. Europe seems decidedly unattractive from this distance just now. Especially when you hear of thousands of people trying to get home who can’t get a flight in.

MibsXX The saddest thing of all has been the selfishness of many of those who have been vaccinated.

This pandemic has affected everyone and everything, We are in this together and we should stay together as a community until the end. We have both been vaccinated but will be obeying all the rules until all of us are freed from them.

MOnica I could not agree more. I am expecting my second vaccination any time but my life will not change- I will still be seeing rather a lot of these 4 walls.

MibsXX millions of people have had to continue to work throughout the pandemic, my staff and family included.

Saetana

It may well be possible to holiday abroad to some destinations - those that have low levels of covid and/or are well advanced with their vaccination programmes. I would warn those who have chosen not to be vaccinated though - its highly likely other countries will want proof of vaccination before you can travel there. We don't holiday outside the UK in any event, my husband's health issues make it too risky. We will not go on holiday at all this year but looking forward to visiting local attractions and visiting our closest seaside resort (Weston-Super-Mare). Maybe an overnight to London to visit the theatre at most. I am just looking forward to being able to go out in April for al fresco lunch and cocktails. Its been months since we have gone anywhere - last time was - August/September 2020 and we stuck to al fresco then as well.

It may well be that other countries don’t want us!, Australia and NZ in particular will be very cautious until their population is vaccinated.

Katie I can’t speak for NZ but Australia haven’t repatriated all their citizens yet. They have to wait until there is space in one of the hotels they are using.
We are very low down on the priority list. I have more information about NSW than anywhere else because my DD works with the people making the decisions.

MOnica

Trouble is that we are not all in it together. If you have a holiday home you are allowed to travel to prepare it for rent (courtesy of the Guardian). Government restrictions do not seem to extend to those who have more resources. So much for levelling up!

Miss Chatelaine
Seriously? You think everything will be open and as accessible as it ever was abroad? Your post suggests that the UK is the only country stifled by Coronavirus. I’d like to know what planet you live on? Bizarre.

M0nica

MibsXX The saddest thing of all has been the selfishness of many of those who have been vaccinated.

This pandemic has affected everyone and everything, We are in this together and we should stay together as a community until the end. We have both been vaccinated but will be obeying all the rules until all of us are freed from them.

If I were a younger unvaccinated person I would be very angry to see oldies travelling abroad before I myself felt comfortable and safe.

Frogsinmygarden

Miss Chatelaine
Seriously? You think everything will be open and as accessible as it ever was abroad? Your post suggests that the UK is the only country stifled by Coronavirus. I’d like to know what planet you live on? Bizarre.

I wasn’t going to bother to reply to this as I really am not sure what it is that you are specifically referring to. However I am curious. Maybe your planet and experience is different to mine .
Yes I do think that at some point in the foreseeable future we will be able to travel abroad for holidays and to visit friends and relatives. We can not cut ourselves off on our island forever. People have many reasons for travelling.

Actually it is possible for my partner to travel abroad to our apartment in the Canary Islands whenever she wants as she has Spanish residency. I could if I wanted now accompany her under today’s Stanley Johnson clause of being able to visit a holiday home to get it ready to sell or rent. Having flown out there and back in August I can happily say that I have no fear of being on a plane.

The small town where I live has 0 current cases and the island we spend half the year on has fewer than 3 cases.
Please tell me what your problem is?

ayse

MOnica

Trouble is that we are not all in it together. If you have a holiday home you are allowed to travel to prepare it for rent (courtesy of the Guardian). Government restrictions do not seem to extend to those who have more resources. So much for levelling up!

You’re right ayse. We are absolutely not all in this together. That sentiment comes from people who have been able to sit comfortably at home whilst others went out to work to keep them comfortable and safe. My daughter and her husband are doctors, they both got Covid. They were out there and ended up infected whilst others were afraid to out of their doors. I’m fed up of the sense of self entitlement from many of the other generation.

Well said MissChatelaine.

You’re right ayse. We are absolutely not all in this together. That sentiment comes from people who have been able to sit comfortably at home whilst others went out to work to keep them comfortable and safe. My daughter and her husband are doctors, they both got Covid. They were out there and ended up infected whilst others were afraid to out of their doors. I’m fed up of the sense of self entitlement from many of the other generation.

Well, you have me thoroughly confused, maddyone.

Can it be that those of us who have stayed at home and followed the 'rules' (just about) thinking that they were not only protecting themselves but were also protecting front line and essential workers by not allowing the virus to spread, were doing the wrong thing all along because it's somehow given us a 'sense of entitlement'? Entitlement to what?

Would you have preferred us all to have just gone out and caught covid? Because it seems as though not having had it and not being able to spread it around is a black mark against us and entitles us to nothing at all, least of all a 'view'.

Or have I seriously misinterpreted your post?

maddyone I’m fed up of the sense of self entitlement from many of the other generation.

What on earth do you mean? Those who have stayed in and gone nowhere have had no choice. They have been told to shield by the government. Have you any idea what effect this has had on many people's mental health? Where is this sense of self-entitlment that people have shown? I haven't seen it. Certainly not among the housebound and unemployed because of COVID, the housebound and now mentally ill, the housebound and desperately waiting for treatment for cancer and other serious illnesses. The parents housebound in small homes with children, trying to work and home educate and possibly support a family member or friend who has been told to shield. the housebound with close family in care homes that they cannot visit, knowing that when they next see their parent they will no longer be recognised. the house bound who were unable to visit and be with close family members when they died.

I have yet to meet anyone who wasn't grateful and appreciative of all that those that have continued to be able to go out to work, from those in the NHS to the delivery drivers that deliver their food orders

It is ridiculous this constant yah boo suckery about who has suffered and who hasn't, behaving like children in a play ground.

This virus has affected almost everyone in the world in one way or another, some sections of society have suffered more than others, that is inevitable, it is the same in every aspect of life.

But in situations like this the community should come together as one and work together as one, and indeed this has been the experience that constantly has been exhibited in communities all round the country.

It is sad to see someone on GN advocating division and sectionalism

Maizie
I feel that younger people and children have paid the price for our safety. They have paid in many ways. Children have lost a year of school, they’ve lost out on education (not every household had a computer for every child) they’ve lost out on development of social skills (particularly the youngest) some have lost out on physical development (if they live in a high rise flat with no garden) and they’ve lost out on a lot more (too much to include here.) Younger people have lost their jobs, or will have lost their jobs when normality returns. And others have kept working throughout the pandemic, like my daughter and son in law. Actually, all my children have kept working, one from home, the others not so. Nearly a thousand doctors and nurses have died of Covid in the UK.
Older people have been able to stay at home. Quite rightly, they were protected. Obviously they shouldn’t have all gone out and caught Covid, they were privileged in that they could stay at home, and continue to receive their income. Apparently the savings of those in work and older people in particular have grown enormously. But on the other hand the economy has suffered enormously.
I just wish that older people would have the grace to accept and be grateful for what had been done for them.

Callistemon Theoretically the French are following a similar pattern to that in the UK - age groups, health care and care home workers.

I feel that younger people and children have paid the price for our safety.

You do do realise that young people and children can get covid, some can even die of it and some can recover but with life changing long term effects. Lockdown was meant to protect everybody. I'm a bit tired of being characterised as a selfish old person who is stopping everyone else have fun just to protect me from a nasty illness and a possible premature death.

I am very cross that our government got us into this situation in the first place by blithely ignoring all early warnings and advice from scientists and other affected countries and that, having allowed the virus to take hold, they have seen it more as an opportunity for their cronies and donors to make a profit than as a threat to protect the citizens of the country they have been entrusted to govern. Furthermore, it has done very little to protect those who have had to be in the front line and very little to make returning to school actually safe for children and teachers.

And I am very cross that all this incompetence has laid people open to ridiculous accusations of 'entitlement' when they actually believed that they were doing the right thing.

.Correction

...a threat to protect the citizens of the country they have been entrusted to govern from..

Or - a threat to protect citizens from..

And who the bloody hell is being 'ungrateful'?

We have the highest infection and death rate among the under 50s in Europe. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Maddyone Please explain how older people were protected. We were told to stay at home. Some of us are lucky in that we have spacious houses and gardens, most of us aren't. I thought that we were staying at home to avoid spreading the disease so I suppose in that respect we were protected but also protecting others at the same time.

It is not a privilege but a right to receive our pensions - we have earned them by making contributions for over 40 years. With the increase in pension age for some people it will be fifty.

Some young people are doing very well during covid - maybe not that many but some. The grandchildren of one of my friends have been in Italy for several months (their mother is Italian) They go to private school and have been doing their lessons on line. They've been having a fine time.

However, there are thousands of children who are really suffering and there has been a massive increase in child abuse (and wife beating). There aren't sufficient social workers to deal with these problems.

Turning to employment - currently the percentage of economically active unemployed people aged over 16 is 5%.
This means that 95% are in employment! It also means that 1.7 million people are unemployed. (ONS November to January)

As we know, hospitality, retail and entertainment are the sectors most badly affected. Since the crisis began 693,000 payroll jobs have been affected. The majority of those (2/3) were the under 25s. Many of the people working in those sectors will be students working to support themselves. Those jobs will return once everyone is able to go out. Cinemas and theatres will re-open, as will pubs and restaurants. These are buildings. They will still be there when we can get out. Maybe some of the restaurant owners or pub landlords or cinema chains will have gone bankrupt but someone else will come along to start up new businesses.

Rather than arguing about which group of people have suffered the most, we should be doing our utmost by trying to ensure that businesses are able to start up again and to ensure there is much more support for those who have suffered mentally and physically over the last year. Those older people who have saved money will be only too willing to go out and spend it, once they get the green light. We have had a discussion about govt bonds elsewhere on GN but many of those people with surplus capital will be willing to take up some (assuming that there is a reasonable return)

We should all be aware of the Covid deaths facts in the UK.

1) Mortality rates rise sharply with age
2) Mortality rates are higher among men than women
3) Mortality rates are significantly higher in people with pre existing conditions (as people age they become more likely to have pre existing conditions)
4) Mortality rates are 120% higher in the most deprived compared with the least deprived decile of areas
5) Mortality in the black group is almost twice that of the white group
6) Mortality rates are higher among some people working in public facing occupations
7) Excess weight is associated with an increased risk of.........hospitalisation, severe disease, and death

Source: The Kings Fund, Deaths From Covid19, how are they counted and what do they show.

A few facts for those who are interested. Note: the the first fact, mortality rises with age, which the statistics prove unequivocally.

There are a lot of people over 60 in full time employment (or even part time) in high risk environments. You only have to go to a supermarket or a hospital to see this, it isn't just young people going out to work.

We am bubbling with a lady of 80 whose family live in London, Essex and Dubai.
The Dubai family have just returned to the U.K. via Greece.
I’m not sure of the exact chain of events but it runs something like this-
Test in Dubai before leaving, spend 5 days in an hotel in Athens. Test. A few days at leisure. Test before flying to U.K.
Leave airport and go home to wherever.
That’s the story I have been told. Perhaps one of you has more information?
Until our government really takes control over people coming to this country we could be in trouble.
I think they should stop all travel without strict controls, that means proper quarantine, and then let us open up here.

The voice of reason from Dinahmo. The important thing going forward is everything is done to support those who have lost most. I expect the so-called "entitled" will be more than happy to cough up to pay for better education and family support amongst the groups who have been most affected. It's a shame that there have been ten years of cutting services, but I'm sure it will all be reversed. This has more to do with pre-exiting divisions in society, which have been exacerbated by Covid, than age.

PS. I just saw a flying pig.