Dominic Cummings

Interesting interview with Johnson on BBC just now. Twice edited and Johnson very red in the face. Also refused to say that he didn’t make the bodies piling high comment.

Said on Sky news that it was a pool interview. I assume that means that the same interview was shown on all news channels but some bits had been edited out. Wonder why?

Gannygangan

However, I am still bewildered as to why Cummings appears to have turned into a white knight when posters on this very thread were ripping him to pieces last year. [Thu 27-May-21 10:25:10]

Could you show me exactly where anyone has painted Cummings as a "white knight"? Please stop these unsubstantiated attempts to blacken the views of others. If it's true - quote it.

Cummings personal opinions will affect the Conservative Party but with the pick of salt that goes with knowing they are very personal. He has targeted some he dislikes and not mentioned others. He mentioned Matt Hancock so often that it did feel personal but if it can be shown Hancock lied about PPE stocks, testing in care homes, the 100,000 daily test target or lost the confidence of top civil servants we need to take notice of it, so these things will have to be investigated.

His eye-witness testimony cannot be dismissed partly because it backs up the thoughts and lived experience of many. If we were told once we were told far too many times about the areas Johnson had "put his arms around" which turned out just not to be true.

One of the things I’ve never understood is government constantly saying they didn’t know about asymptomatic carriers when the evidence had been there since January of last year.

Could you show me exactly where anyone has painted Cummings as a "white knight"

Where did I claim anything of the sort, Pippa?

I said appeared

Surely you understand the difference.

For anyone taking this seriously and not just point scoring WATO has done some fact-checking on what we actually know. Hopefully this will take you there. It starts at 13.19.

This avoids any character assassination in either direction - it is about the facts.

Cummings has shown himself to be an unreliable witness with his own admission that he was economical with the truth about his jaunt to Durham during lockdown. He may be telling the honest truth now but who knows? What I find the most amazing is that these clowns are running the country!

Gannygangan

*Could you show me exactly where anyone has painted Cummings as a "white knight"*

Where did I claim anything of the sort, Pippa?

I said appeared

Surely you understand the difference.

That sounds like something an MP or SPAD could have said to justify a level of character assasination.

Could you, therefore, quote what "appeared" to be someone painting Cummings as a white knight. Someone must have said something to make you suggest that.

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ just because you do not agree with someone’s opinion/narrative does not mean it is whataboutery

An enquiry has to delve through the minutia of evidence, discard the lies and false/constructed evidence and draw a conclusion.

....but ‘whataboutery’ and ‘gaslighting’ are the ‘in’ words doncha know! ? Although....the younger people may have moved onto other words by now, GN is always a bit behind on that sort of thing.

leeds22

Well at least he made Bernard Castle famous.

Is that Barbara’s husband??

lemongrove

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ just because you do not agree with someone’s opinion/narrative does not mean it is whataboutery

An enquiry has to delve through the minutia of evidence, discard the lies and false/constructed evidence and draw a conclusion.

....but ‘whataboutery’ and ‘gaslighting’ are the ‘in’ words doncha know! ? Although....the younger people may have moved onto other words by now, GN is always a bit behind on that sort of thing.

Still making silly comments about something that has resulted in 120,000 deaths? I wonder what the most up to date word for that is?

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

What are you on about Maybee !

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

I fear that is through frustration bubbling up.

It must be difficult when you look at the stats of Labour v Conservative v Liberals/Lib Dems who have formed UK Government’s over the last 70+ years.

This thread Maybe is for discussing Cummings and if he is lying or not, and silly comments, as you put it , are allowed whether you like it or not.
The use of the word ‘whataboutery’ on GN to try and close down another poster is well known.

There is a sense of hysteria behind the unwillingness to acknowled the deaths that have occured Maybee. You would think some people are finding this fun.

I have typed up the first part of the interview I flagged. The second part is about Care Homes and I will type it up later if I have time.

This was on the World at One, as I said.

Presenter: Will Moy is the Chief Executive of Full Fact, the independent fact-checking charity. Good afternoon.

Will Moy: Good afternoon.

P: Now we've just pulled out two of the many charges that were levelled against the Health Secretary. Can we start with PPE and we heard Matt Hancock, even, and the allegation is what he had said a year ago, but even two months ago, as we heard there, he was saying there wasn't a national shortage of PPE. Is that right?

WM: Well, it's important, I think, the stress what we don't know about what happened last year and it emphasises the importance of truth-finding institutions in government. So in finance, we have the National Audit Office and the Corona Virus Inquiry is going to be hugely important as a statutory independent inquiry. But what we can say of this at the moment is that, although there were differences between different Trusts at different times the evidence points towards the conclusion that there was a shortage of Personal Protective Equipment. According to the National Audit Office, at the peak Trusts only got a third of the aprons they needed, a quarter of the eye protection they needed, and just 11% of the gowns and coveralls they needed.

P: So what the, forgive me for interrupting, but the National Audit Office, itself, found there was a national shortage.

WM: Well, Matt Hancock claims, and this is what he said, the National Audit Office found there was never a national shortage of PPE but the NAO did not actually say that. It stopped short of saying there definitely was a national shortage but it also said, this is a quote from them: "Demand for PPE was so high in April and May that stock levels were negligible for most types of PPE. The shortages I've already named came from the NAO. In our own Freedom of Information research, we found there were particular shortages of fluid repellent gowns and a solution used to test that staff respirators fit properly having asked 106 different NHS Trusts, via FOI. So, Matt Hancock claimed that the NAO found there was never a national shortage of PPE (?) was not what they said and the NAO gave lots of examples of shortages but stopped short of saying specifically that there was a national shortage.

E&OE as always.

Whataboutery: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

Or, those who are using actual whataboutery, not the word used to flag it up, attempting to close down a line of argument because they don't have an answer to it.

Let's take it that Cummings has come up with a load of lies to get revenge on Johnson. That still leaves us with a Prime Minister who was so naive that he allowed himself to be fooled into following Cummings' lead and protecting him if there were any objections. Doesn't show him in a very good light as our leader for 18 months of national emergency.

I think it speaks volumes that the Tory they chose to go on Peston last night was Robert Jenrick, already suspected of dodgy dealing, put another one being shielded by Johnson.

It’s going to be difficult to get anything very accurate from the statistics, I think, except that a large number of people died prematurely.

Peasblossom that is right.

Some people may die much later than the 28 days from the effects of Covid and will not be counted. Others may have died within a few days anyway but Covid hastened their death so they were counted in the statistics.

We may never know for sure and we will never know what the true figures are for many other countries too.

Interesting quote : “Nothing in the world is ever completely wrong. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.” Paul Coelho

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

Just another attempt at the character assassination of those who don't hold your views. I look forward to seeing any quote that comes anywhere near upholding what you have said - or, should you not be able to produce one,we can take it you are being economical with the truth otherwise known as "being a Tory".

I have put forward some actual, well sourced facts, to support the suggestion that Matt Hancock lied. How about you put some forward for the case that says he didn't rather than endless name calling.

It seems to me that a lie is now just a mistake. And we all make mistakes, don't we?

One of the things that Cummings said is that the PM didn’t take the virus seriously. And Johnson is on record saying he went to a hospital and ‘shook hands with everybody’. So that, at least can’t be a lie can it?

As usual posters opinions divide along party lines. Just shows how difficult it is to have an unbiased opinion.
Greta ha ha, lies as “mistakes. I wonder if that is the same as being economical, distorting or evading the truth?