Dominic Cummings

Mmm. I see the division more along those who want the truth and those who don't care as long as they get what they want.

I have posted on this thread and do not belong to any party.
I don't always vote for the same one either so "party lines" doesn't fit. I expect there will be others in the same position.

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

I don't believe everything DC says is gospel and I doubt if anybody else does. By all accounts he has kept many documents and photos to support his claims.

Perhaps you've forgotten that, as the architect of Brexit he is disliked by most Remainers. However if ultimately there is sufficient evidence to remove Johnson from office, I for one will be pleased.

Not all of my votes went to the Conservatives earlier this month.

I have said all along if it is proven that the PM is found guilty of any illegalities he should suffer the consequences, that goes for any MP.

I am still unconvinced that Dominic Cummings has an altruistic motive regarding his revalations In my opinion he is clearing the decks in the hope of being king maker to one of Messers Gove, Sunak or long shot Grieve

MayBee70

One of the things that Cummings said is that the PM didn’t take the virus seriously. And Johnson is on record saying he went to a hospital and ‘shook hands with everybody’. So that, at least can’t be a lie can it?

He has been bumping elbows throughout whereas I thought that was too close a contact.
He did go to the centre where I had my vaccine a few days after and was bumping elbows.

He wouldn't have got near enough to bump mine.
?

Where's my post? If I post again it may appear twice

PippaZ

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

Just another attempt at the character assassination of those who don't hold your views. I look forward to seeing any quote that comes anywhere near upholding what you have said - or, should you not be able to produce one,we can take it you are being economical with the truth otherwise known as "being a Tory".

I have put forward some actual, well sourced facts, to support the suggestion that Matt Hancock lied. How about you put some forward for the case that says he didn't rather than endless name calling.

What a weird post.
Name calling ? Where? Character assassinations? Where?
I leave the people actually doing this inquiry to sift the facts and any evidence to come up with as near the truth as they can muster.Not strangers on Gransnet.
What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’?
Now they think he is telling the truth!
Unless he produces evidence it’s all ‘he said’ ‘she said’.
Because he’s a strange one it’s hard to know what is truth and what is attempted revenge.

As usual posters opinions divide along party lines

I don't think so but then I don't belong to any party or vote consistently for a particular party now.

What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’ ?

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country, that the PM and other politicians were his puppets and all decisions were his, they merely did as instructed by Cummings, a dreadful, dangerous SPAD.

However, I did post on another thread that much on GN should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Hancock = world’s expert at evasion, both in parliament and presser.

So if he had nothing to hide I would have expected him to have been totally up front. I think that I would bet money on the fact that he lied.

He won’t be got rid of very quickly.

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong. I still don’t trust Cummings or his long term agenda, but I do believe what he said yesterday because it fitted in with how I felt at the time that the pandemic was being handled (or not handled). A bit like getting the right answer to something albeit arriving there by the wrong route.

leeds22

Well at least he made Bernard Castle famous.

Not so famous that people get its name right

It's Barnard Castle...

Callistemon

^What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’^ ?

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country, that the PM and other politicians were his puppets and all decisions were his, they merely did as instructed by Cummings, a dreadful, dangerous SPAD.

However, I did post on another thread that much on GN should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country,

How many threads? Obviously you can give links to at least three threads or you would have worded that differently. Please give these. Also ensure you show the pages with a multiplicity of people as you seem to be suggesting more than one or two of these too.

It really does seem that something is getting to the Tory faithful. Of course, the views of some of them has been that Johnson was actually running the country so their faith may be shaken. Strangely the word brewery comes to mind.

The lies go on and on.

Dr. Mike Face
@EmergMedDr
·
5h
Emergency departments DID NOT WANT to send the elderly with covid or suspected covid back to care homes.

We wanted to test them.

However, PHE and the government only allowed us to test those who were being admitted to hospital.

Matt Hancock is not telling the truth today.

MayBee70

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong. I still don’t trust Cummings or his long term agenda, but I do believe what he said yesterday because it fitted in with how I felt at the time that the pandemic was being handled (or not handled). A bit like getting the right answer to something albeit arriving there by the wrong route.

It appears to fit in with what the fact-checkers are producing to Maybee and they are only using facts, not likes/dislikes or politics so worth listening to.

MayBee70

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong. I still don’t trust Cummings or his long term agenda, but I do believe what he said yesterday because it fitted in with how I felt at the time that the pandemic was being handled (or not handled). A bit like getting the right answer to something albeit arriving there by the wrong route.

Thanks MayBee70. I’ve caught up with this thread with increasing irritation at what I see as a tribal response from right wingers.
I listened to Cummings. Two immediate responses from me. Firstly, he’s very angry and I’m sure he has contemp notes/audio recordings to back up what he;s saying. Secondly - yes, I remember all these ‘allegations’ he’s making as facts during those months. We didn’t have Ppe, Johnson told everyone he was shaking hands with COVID sufferers. His approach changed after his near death experience. And of course - herd immunity, care homes - I’ll stop there

Matt Hancock is not telling the truth today.

It may be easier to count when he does than when he doesn't.

From The Spectator email: (so not a Gnetter's opinion)
Matt Hancock repeatedly dodged questions on whether he had told the Prime Minister that people going into care homes from hospital would be tested.

Iam64

MayBee70

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong. I still don’t trust Cummings or his long term agenda, but I do believe what he said yesterday because it fitted in with how I felt at the time that the pandemic was being handled (or not handled). A bit like getting the right answer to something albeit arriving there by the wrong route.

Thanks MayBee70. I’ve caught up with this thread with increasing irritation at what I see as a tribal response from right wingers.
I listened to Cummings. Two immediate responses from me. Firstly, he’s very angry and I’m sure he has contemp notes/audio recordings to back up what he;s saying. Secondly - yes, I remember all these ‘allegations’ he’s making as facts during those months. We didn’t have Ppe, Johnson told everyone he was shaking hands with COVID sufferers. His approach changed after his near death experience. And of course - herd immunity, care homes - I’ll stop there

I wonder if anyone remembers, as I do, feeling that no one was running the country - and that wasn't just when Johnson was in hospital or ill either.

Iam64 wrote: yes, I remember all these ‘allegations’ he’s making as facts during those months.

I can't say I've analysed everything he claimed. However, it's interesting that much of what he's claimed (from what I can see) is about actions/issues/decisions (etc) which were reported at the time and quickly brushed under the carpet and forgotten about. I think he's telling the truth about them.

I'm not so sure about other claims and I suspect nobody else is either, but much of what he has claimed is true - not bad for somebody who has a reputation for lying.

I have no idea what his real motivation is. I doubt very much if he's been overcome by altruism or remorse. He's not the soothsayer he claimed to be, but I'll give him credit for understanding public reactions. None of the fallout and criticism of him today will have been unexpected. He wouldn't have made the claims he has, if he'd thought they'd be dismissed out of hand, so I'm sure he has some goal.

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong

So did I at the time, Maybee

But, having been proven to be a liar and prevaricator I still don't trust him an inch.

Not that I trust Boris either. However, I did think Hancock was a decent man but out of his depth.
I thought Cummings was in charge of all of them anyway and Hancock and Boris were his Archie Andrews.

I can't say I've analysed everything he claimed. However, it's interesting that much of what he's claimed (from what I can see) is about actions/issues/decisions (etc) which were reported at the time and quickly brushed under the carpet and forgotten about. I think he's telling the truth about them.

If people are saying that we should wait and see if what he's saying is true then they haven't been following developments over the past year or so. I'm not saying all of it is true but much of it has been written about in articles by others, such as investigative reporters. The book, Failures of the State' which was published earlier this year, and which I have read, is by two Sunday Times reporters who have used a number of sources, news items, minutes of meetings and interviews with people from many areas, sets out much of what Cummings has said. There is already plenty of corroboration out there.

Like Pippa I would be interested to see all these threads about Cummings 'running the country'. As far as I recall there was a lot of discussion of his little jaunt to Durham (and, BTW, I think he is still lying about aspects of it, such as the 'mob' at his house. There was no 'mob' until the news broke about his trip, and then it consisted mostly of reporters and photographers. AS GG13 has pointed out. I recall one socially distanced protest, too, but not 'mobs') but not much else.

He didn't say much that was unfamiliar to those who had been keeping their eyes open...

I certainly don't think he's a white knight.

The same man was pulling Boris's strings so now that things have backfired he's now blaming Boris. Nice man, eh ? With deputies like him you don't need enemies.
Empty vessels little man !

I am perfectly aware that a public enquiry is not a Court of Law

I have attended four Public Inquiries in the last 20 years. I can assure you, GG13, that they are only one step down from being a Court of Law. They are presided over by a judge, witnesses can employ a barrister to present their evidence and they can be cross examined on it. Barristers can also present legal arguments to the judge if appropriate.

He didn't become an empty vessels man overnight. He wasn't a newcomer to government. Why did Johnson appoint him, if he know what he was like, which he must have done?

I think Cummings knows exactly what he's doing with these "revelations".

MaizieD

^I am perfectly aware that a public enquiry is not a Court of Law^

I have attended four Public Inquiries in the last 20 years. I can assure you, GG13, that they are only one step down from being a Court of Law. They are presided over by a judge, witnesses can employ a barrister to present their evidence and they can be cross examined on it. Barristers can also present legal arguments to the judge if appropriate.

My answer was to PippaZ , I am aware that legal advice is available.

I just find the whole debacle a very sad stain on politics in the U.K.

What worries me is that the next pandemic-producing bug may not have the decency to wait for an enquiry starting next year to produce a report and the government to take action on it's recommendations.

For all we know it is starting up somewhere already while attention is focussed on Covid.

What harm in having a preliminary enquiry, starting and ending soon, to produce recommendations on what needs to be put in place (as soon as possible) to be prepared, just in case.

It would not be apportioning blame so should have no effect on voting choices in the next General Election.