Dominic Cummings

Delay in locking down by Johnson has, according to scientists cost up to 33k extra deaths.

It seems Cummings was correct.

I’m sure that Germany had developed good covid tests very early on in the pandemic and thought that they’d offered to share them with us but I’m going from memory here.

MayBee70

I’m sure that Germany had developed good covid tests very early on in the pandemic and thought that they’d offered to share them with us but I’m going from memory here.

Yes I can remember exactly that as well.

Caro57

It’s all very well these people moaning and criticising what was / wasn’t done. It would be interesting to hear what they would have done in the circumstances at that time - not with hindsight

There were plenty of people who were saying what should be done.

katy1950

I wouldn't believe a word he said he's been sacked I'm sure his recollection would have been different had he still had his job

His recollections would probably have been the same, but he would have kept his mouth shut.

Ah well! I'm going to go down a rabbit hole for a moment.

So many people have said they don't believe a word Cummings says, yet much of what he said was true and can be corroborated.

What if this is a careful plan, so that people don't believe what is true, just because Cummings says it is?

“We” haven’t put ourselves up for the job of Prime Minister! BJ et al did unfortunately. If Cummings is a “liar” how about BJ who has been sacked from a few jobs for lying.

What if this is a careful plan, so that people don't believe what is true, just because Cummings says it is?

Baldrick: I have a cunning plan.
Edmund: Yes, perhaps, but I think I may have a more cunning one.
Baldrick: Well, mine’s pretty cunning, My Lord.
Edmund: Yes, but not cunning enough, I imagine.
Baldrick: Well, that depends how cunning you mean, My Lord.
Edmund: Well, pretty damn cunning. How cunning do you think I mean?
Baldrick: Well, mine’s quite cunning, My Lord.
Edmund: (fed up) Alright, then, let’s hear it! Let’s hear what’s so damn cunning!
Baldrick: Right, well, first of all, you get him to come with you–
Edmund: Oh yes, very cunning. Brilliantly cunning. I ask
him to come with me and then…then stab him, perhaps. How cunning can you get?

Maybe the next question to Cummings should be "Do you watch Blackadder?"

icanhandthemback

I wouldn't believe everything Dominic Cummings said, nor what any Government said. There was a lack of "evidence", a "no, I am not letting you see the messages," and an agenda to put the knife into his enemies. Somehow, by lack of information, we are to believe that Mr Gove was innocent of all the accusations (anybody smell a rat) and that with all the concern DC had, he was happy to break the rules with his trip to Durham Castle.
There were lots of accusations which, as part of a conversation and in context, would be perfectly acceptable. Anybody in charge of an economy might ask whether we should lock everything down when it was a specific part of the population who was affected. That would not mean I wasn't going to protect the ones who would be disproportionately affected.
In the early days, I was more dismissive of the affects of the virus because we had heard of so many potentially life threatening viral infections before which had come to nothing. There is no doubt we were complacent but I have seen little to suggest that any other Government would have done differently.
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing so I am more inclined to wait for a proper wide reaching inquiry to get a balanced version of events.

The evidence was available towards the end of February with the number of deaths in Italy, hospitals overflowing, bodies in coffins piling up, no travel between cities without good reason and police road blocks.

We should have know and done more back then

It's all smoke and mirrors in a den of thieves.

I'm waiting for the film.

The evidence for what needed to be done was in front of their eyes. It's not just hindsight. It was blindingly obvious what needed to be done.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-301305-3500.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-997337-pjimage-3-1-owh2xl.jpeg

Just for you, growstuff
Drama called This Sceptred Isle on first Covid wave will air next year on Sky Atlantic and Now TV
We don't have Sky (thank goodness)

Vindictive little devil isn't he.
Do I believe it, maybe some truth but do I care.... not a jot....who else could have done what the Conservatives have done. I don't care if it was by design or accident, they've done a grand job.

I don't have Sky either.

I'm reasonably convinced that Cummings was telling the truth. The main difference will be on emphasis or spin as we like to call. He has offered corroboration to MPs, he would look pretty stupid if his claims could be easily discredited. I think that it's possible he has a conscience and he is keen to make sure that history gets his version of events. Don't forget thus isn't over, cases are rising just as restrictions are lifting. It's starting to feel like Groundhog Day. Thus is why we really must listen and act accordingly. Wasn't it Einstein who said that the definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over again and expect a different result?

Lollipop1

Vindictive little devil isn't he.
Do I believe it, maybe some truth but do I care.... not a jot....who else could have done what the Conservatives have done. I don't care if it was by design or accident, they've done a grand job.

Really?

This is why we're stuck with this bunch of chancers in government for goodness know how much longer.

Maybe they got lucky and "only" 127,000 died.

Lollipop1

Vindictive little devil isn't he.
Do I believe it, maybe some truth but do I care.... not a jot....who else could have done what the Conservatives have done. I don't care if it was by design or accident, they've done a grand job.

And this is why the Conservatives are still in the lead!

The Conservatives haven't done a "grand job", unless the "job" was about piling up bodies.

It's interesting to see that some people "don't care" about the bodies.

Of course I can use that argument. There is as much truth in it as in any of the claims made on here. I have as much power over the government as any other poster on here, i.e. none.

None of the posters on GN to my knowledge ever had to make decisions for the country, about whether everyone should lock down and how to make it happen when people were, even on GN were saying, “I can go out if I want. I know what is right for me.” “I don’t believe masks work so I’m not wearing one.”
No one on here had to juggle between having lives ruined financially, by lockdown and health of the country. No one one here has claimed they could have got that right.

The one thing that GN shares with the government is the constant stream of criticism.
e.g. I remember the criticism over creation of emergency Covid hospitals and the criticism by many of the same people when they weren’t needed.

I’m not convinced the government got it right, I’ve already said that.
However, we can sit here on GN and say ‘this should have been done’, or ‘that shouldn’t have been done’ with complete impunity, and I guess we still will.

growstuff

The evidence for what needed to be done was in front of their eyes. It's not just hindsight. It was blindingly obvious what needed to be done.

Exactly. This hindsight thing is nonsense.
A friend of mine in Italy was texting me daily saying why isn’t your PM locking down? Can’t he see what is happening ?

I have as much power over the government as any other poster on here, i.e. none.

We have all the power. We live in a democracy.

And in a democracy we are allowed to, in fact encouraged to, criticise the government. Anybody who just sits there and goes, "ah, they did their best" is abdicating responsibility for choosing this bunch and is letting them off the hook for all their many failings.

Well yes but if you sign up for the job of government that's part of the deal. I ran a residential home it's a little bit like me bring surprised when Ofsted, the local authority, social workers had things to say about my provision.

Lollipop1

Vindictive little devil isn't he.
Do I believe it, maybe some truth but do I care.... not a jot....who else could have done what the Conservatives have done. I don't care if it was by design or accident, they've done a grand job.

A grand job ?? Do you include the shambles over schools closing not closing closing ? Exam results ?

The delay in locking down ?

Our vaccine programme is going well i grant you, mainly due to it being rolled out by the nhs and a host of volunteers.

Anyone counted up how many times the word “hindsight” has appeared in the last month on GN?

Forums are the modern equivalent of people moaning about the government of the day...in pubs.
On a comfy seat with a pint in front of them ( cup of tea on GN) whilst they pontificate on how things should be done and how much better they should have been done.Even though in reality they don’t have a clue what should have been done or when.Good job that they really don’t have to make those hard decisions themselves. Armchair experts is the phrase.