Anti-vaxx nurse struck off

So it would have been fine if she wasnt in a nurses uniform. Look I think she is talking nonsense and offensive nonsense at that. Drawing lines is not easy, should nurses who discuss anti vaccine theories be sacked, forget the uniform and the slagging off her own employers which was particularly spectacular, what about if she had simply been saying she believes the vaccine is dangerous. I dont believe that to be clear but I am interested where the line us drawn and more importantly who draws it.

I think it's a bit harsh to say it serves anti-vaccine folk right if they become ill with covid.

I totally agree they have made an ill advised decision

I agree with Grannyactivist. I wonder how long and how far your line would stretch Galaxy?

Galaxy

I think its reasonable to be sacked for slagging off your own employer on social media but I am not sure I am comfortable with people being sacked for spouting nonsense conspiracy theories.

Do no harm is the doctrine (no pun intended) isnt it?

mumofmadboys

I think it's a bit harsh to say it serves anti-vaccine folk right if they become ill with covid.

Why?
If we all have a choice, we must make ourselves aware of the consequences of that choice.
Which in this case is a higher risk of contracting g and spreading it.

Drawing the ki e isnt easy, should nurses who discuss the vaccine be struck off?

Discussion v promotion, it then falls to the employers to make that distinction.
Each case should be looked at on its merit.
The NHS did the right thing in this case imv.

Line

Ellan Vannin I trained to be state registered nurse beginning 1948 . I did not have to take any oath .
I assume the oath you took outlined the basic ethics?
It seems to me to be a very good thing that any professional person knows [explicitly] the ethics of their chosen profession. I gather nurse education is just that, not 'training' as it was formerly called. Education should include ethics or it is not education.

Teachers, military personnel, police officers, civil servants etc. all have to eschew actions that bring their profession into disrepute.

The Code of Conduct for nurse states specifically that nurses should ‘uphold the reputation of your profession’. Ms. Shemirani is not being penalised for her ‘opinions’, but because, amongst other pejorative claims, she has stated publicly on a number of occasions and a variety of platforms that NHS nurses are working for ‘the new Auschwitz’.

Ms. Shemirani has done more than discuss Covid and vaccinations, etc. She was one of the organisers of at least one of the anti-vaxx demos in London, where she spoke publicly and criticised the NHS. She is also very active on social media. Her behaviour quite clearly undermines the work of the NHS.

IMO it is absolutely right that she has been struck off. If I am receiving NHS, I want to know that the people treating me are following NHS guidelines, in which Ms Shemirani has quite clearly stated she doesn't believe. If people want to follow her "health advice", that's up to them, but it shouldn't be under an NHS banner.

Totally agree with growstuff and Mawbe.

I trained as a nurse too and don't remember taking an oath.
I do feel that people are entitled to their opinion however strange those opinions may seem. This does not mean they are mentally ill as has been suggested.
I think the problem lies with this woman publicly promoting her opinions in her capacity as a nurse.

I agree with Growstuff. Public institutions' employees should be heart and soul with their employers.

In the case of whistle blower against institutions that become immoral, the above is the exception , and I understand that even soldiers can refuse to obey immoral orders. However the nurse in question was not simply refusing to do something immoral, she was acting against the interest of the NHS and the public who instituted the NHS.

MawBe

Galaxy

As long as you are comfortable with sacking people for holding opinions and expressing them in public. But you need to know that one day that will apply to your opinions. It's very complex. It would be lovely if it was simple.

Please do not distort the facts.

She was not sacked for holding opinions
When you belong to a professional body, you should not bring that body or the profession into disrepute - which is what she has done.
There is a clear distinction.
Her social media accounts were taken down and she was suspended from the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) in July last year for spreading misinformation.
Now a NMC committee has ruled that her misconduct was so serious that she should be struck from the nursing register permanently.
It ruled that her fitness to practise as a registered nurse was impaired on both public protection and public interest grounds.

this absolutely. I am a retired Occupational Therapist and both professional organisations and the Health Professions Council are very clear about what is permitted when you are at work (both NHS and private) and also when you are representing or describing yourself by your profession. It actually is that simple.

Galaxy

So it would have been fine if she wasnt in a nurses uniform. Look I think she is talking nonsense and offensive nonsense at that. Drawing lines is not easy, should nurses who discuss anti vaccine theories be sacked, forget the uniform and the slagging off her own employers which was particularly spectacular, what about if she had simply been saying she believes the vaccine is dangerous. I dont believe that to be clear but I am interested where the line us drawn and more importantly who draws it.

For nurses, the line is drawn by the Royal College of Nursing, for other health professions, the Health Professions Council and also by individual professional bodies and employers.
Its not a matter of uniform merely or of what you do within working hours. If you describe yourself as a nurse or a member of a health profession or as an employee of a named organisation...eg by saying on twitter that you are a nurse, then anything you say must follow the behaviour rules laid down by your professional or registration body and also in some cases by the organisation that you work for. And we all KNOW this.
professional titles, such as Nurse, Midwife etcetera are also closely protected by the same bodies...and we all know this too. I am a retired Occupational Therapist. I no longer hold a registration to practice so I can't describe myself as an Occupational Therapist.
Its very clear, we all understand it, she crossed the line and that's that.

Galaxy

I am fairly wary of people being struck off for their opinions. Same with the cricketer thread.

She wore her official nurses uniform for one tirade!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You can see her picture upthread.

I don’t see why her ethnic background should make any difference at all - you may be on shaky ground here.

Another retired nurse here, the NMC nursing and midwifery council would always take a very dim view. The guidelines are to protect the public. I never even got in to discussions with patients about politics, football, and always kept it zipped when the Royal Family were in the media headlines.
People don’t want to hear our opinions....they just want us to do no harm.

I wonder if this nurse actually has any knowledge of what happened at Auschwitz. She probably doesn’t since her views display ignorance.

some may want to hear from her son, on bbc sounds
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3cszvsf
and maybe read below.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751653/Shamed-anti-vaxxer-nurse-sparks-violent-clashes-mass-rally-virus-deniers.html

Florida12

Another retired nurse here, the NMC nursing and midwifery council would always take a very dim view. The guidelines are to protect the public. I never even got in to discussions with patients about politics, football, and always kept it zipped when the Royal Family were in the media headlines.
People don’t want to hear our opinions....they just want us to do no harm.

yup, same here. I live in what used to be a huge huntin shootin area and some of the houses filled with trophies would turn my stomach. Not my business while I was at work. Smile and nod, nod and smile.

grannysyb

Totally agree with growstuff and Mawbe.

Me too.