So masks are to become optional, do you think this is a good idea?

Baggs

JaneJudge

if you work in a shop or supermarket that choice is taken anyway, they are low paid and have no choice.

This is an important point but I have yet to see any statistics about the percentage of shop workers who have even contracted Covid., never mind been hospitalised or who died from it. I think there would have been a media noise about shop worker infections if the numbers had been in any way worthy of attention. No?

Please correct my ignorance if such (well backed up) information exists.

there is some information here

i thought the FFP3 masks were not recommended for general use as the valve concentrates the exhalations into a plume.
so if a person is exhaling the virus, it will be more risky to others, as projected out further, like a flung spear.
dr bharat pankhania advised against them, i believe.
in specialist settings this is not a problem as everyone present will be wearing the same masks, eg in a medical facility.

the timescale in that study is quite short though

This is still a pandemic. I personally will continue to wear a mask inside in places such as supermarkets, shops and on public transport or in a taxi. It just feels a sensible precaution given the Delta variants are highly contagious and it also feels like good manners. While I recognise there are many who hate wearing masks, there are also others who are frightened. I think we are taking a risky path given some people are still dying. If you have had a relative needing hospital care over the last year, as I have (not because of Covid) you will see the last thing any hospital needs is even just one Covid patient.

I’m not happy about the change in policy on mask wearing. Travelling on public transport is a nightmare already with non mask wearers, and I’ve had friend after friend test positive from the virus over the past fortnight that have been double vaccinated.

growstuff where did you get your masks from? I think I shall have to do the same as you.

Yes, the time scale on the study was short and it is now 15 months since it was made. Are there any more uptodate figures?

However the fugures did not show retail workers to be particularly endangered, but most shops did take very strict and sensible precautions to protect their workers.

The standard vaccines are all protective against the Delta varient. Most of the people getting the disease and being admitted to hospital are unvaccinated. If you have had the vaccine you have very little to worry about.

DH was in hospital for 8 weeks during the build up to wave 2, during that time he picked up a hospital acquired infection, not COVID, which led to extensive extra surgery and he came very close to death. DD nearly died because her GPs were running round like headless chickens in the period running up to the first lockdown. and failed to do a blood test they should have done.

I am fully vaccinated, I am more likely to have a heart attack than I am to be seriously ill or die from COVID. This applies to most of us, yet many people are fat, unfit and eating an unhealthy diet that puts them in real danger of a heart attack without doing anything about it, yet are worried about the much more remote chance that, after vaccination, they might get COVID.

My mask will be off the moment that I am allowed not to wear it.
Medical situations aside, I can see little point in continuing to wear one. Huge crowds of football spectators, Wimbledon and Ascot to name but three where only officials are wearing masks.
This isn't about mask etiquette or consideration to others, it's about a return to normal life where everyone isn't terrified all the time.
It's about freedom. If you choose to remain masked, that is your choice, as it is mine not to wear one.
What's the point in the vaccination programme if it means we still have to cower under our beds. We have to get out there and live our lives surely.

Certainly where I shop very few shop staff wear masks. Surely they can’t ban customers who do the same.

MissChateline I'm very surprised at this!

I'm in London and every shop worker is wearing a mask - local shops, pubs, supermarkets, department stores, etc. Of course this might all change come 19 July.

Monica, totally agree. We all have a responsibility to look after our own health. Age we can do nothing about but being overweight or obese is something that everyone of us can change. Healthy eating and exercise combats not only the possibility of a heart attack but also diabetes etc. The people most likely to become very ill (or worse) have been the elderly (can’t change that) and next the overweight and obese. How many times did we hear the phrase “underlying health conditions “ many of these were preventable.
I am fully vaccinated, I have zero fear of contracting COVID as I am very unlikely to become seriously ill. I’m also not concerned about “long COVID either.

I dont really understand how wearing a mask is cowering under our beds. Is wearing a seatbelt cowering?

welbeck

i thought the FFP3 masks were not recommended for general use as the valve concentrates the exhalations into a plume.
so if a person is exhaling the virus, it will be more risky to others, as projected out further, like a flung spear.
dr bharat pankhania advised against them, i believe.
in specialist settings this is not a problem as everyone present will be wearing the same masks, eg in a medical facility.

FFP3 masks don't all have valves. The code refers to the filtration.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PiBfUkBpjo

Santana

My mask will be off the moment that I am allowed not to wear it.
Medical situations aside, I can see little point in continuing to wear one. Huge crowds of football spectators, Wimbledon and Ascot to name but three where only officials are wearing masks.
This isn't about mask etiquette or consideration to others, it's about a return to normal life where everyone isn't terrified all the time.
It's about freedom. If you choose to remain masked, that is your choice, as it is mine not to wear one.
What's the point in the vaccination programme if it means we still have to cower under our beds. We have to get out there and live our lives surely.

It's also about my freedom to go into an enclosed space and know that everybody else is being as responsible as I am. By behaving recklessly and selfishly, some people are taking away others' freedom.

Where there is a risk of infection, masks work best to reduce transmission if almost every one wears one. ( yours protects me, mine protects you alongside space etc) . I do think we should continue to use effective face masks in certain circumstances such as in medical settings (to protect the staff and the already unwell) and anywhere crowded indoors in areas of high infection.I do hope we will be encouraged to take sensible precautions where they are needed.
I can’t help wondering if the plan is to allow the young ( young adults and children) to be exposed and catch Covid and gain natural immunity! My concern is that some of the vulnerable who are still not fully vaccinated ( as some cannot be vaccinated and some are still a waiting for their second jabs) will become very unwell - or go back to the extreme restrictions of shielding.

Grow stuff I too have ordered a few respirators that I know fit me to protect myself ( an ex shielder) if needed on public transport if needed.

If you choose not to wear a mask you are being inconsiderate because you do not know who is vulnerable and who is not. That young person standing in front of you in the supermarket might have asthma, that woman on the bus might be going home to a vulnerable elderly parent. Vulnerable people do not wear labels. Masks protect others and looking out for others is what being considerate means.

One one hand, I think masks are great for preventing all manner of disease transmission in enclosed spaces. If it stops me getting colds and flus, I think that's great. On the other, most people wear disposable masks and this is terrible for the environment. It will be good when that ends or reduces for this reason. I also feel that if you're fully vaccinated, at some point you're going to have to trust that. I don't think anyone wants to live under pandemic conditions forever.

I’m not advocating that we wear masks forever, just that we wear them until a higher percentage of the population have been vaccinated, especially teens and young adults.
The behaviour at recent football matches leaves much to be desired and to use that as a reason for not wearing a mask is incomprehensible. The latest increasing infection rates in men in Scotland has been put down to their attendance and behaviour watching the football matches in large, unmasked groups and with no social distancing.

JaneJudge

Baggs

JaneJudge

if you work in a shop or supermarket that choice is taken anyway, they are low paid and have no choice.

This is an important point but I have yet to see any statistics about the percentage of shop workers who have even contracted Covid., never mind been hospitalised or who died from it. I think there would have been a media noise about shop worker infections if the numbers had been in any way worthy of attention. No?

Please correct my ignorance if such (well backed up) information exists.

there is some information here

Thanks for that JaneJudge. The latest version of that data is here:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales

It's a bit tricky navigating to the correct dataset, so I looked it up and this is the summary:

For deaths registered to 20-64 year olds between 9th March and 28th December 2020:

40.3 in 100,000 males working in sales and customer service occupations died. That was the fifth highest for all occupation groups.
For females, the figure is 18.6 in 100,000, which was also the fifth highest for all occupation groups.

In both cases, the rate of Covid deaths per 100,000 was higher than it was for other other non-Covid deaths.

For both males and females, working people in the following occupational groups were more likely to die from Covid:

elementary occupations
process, plant and machine operatives
caring, leisure and other service occupations
skilled trades occupations

People in the following occupations were less likely to die:

managers, directors and senior officials
professional occupations
associate professional and technical occupations
administrative and secretarial occupations

CafeAuLait

One one hand, I think masks are great for preventing all manner of disease transmission in enclosed spaces. If it stops me getting colds and flus, I think that's great. On the other, most people wear disposable masks and this is terrible for the environment. It will be good when that ends or reduces for this reason. I also feel that if you're fully vaccinated, at some point you're going to have to trust that. I don't think anyone wants to live under pandemic conditions forever.

I'm sure they don't want live like this forever either.

However, even disposable masks offer people some degree of protection and reduce the level of transmission.

Secondly, the UK population has nowhere near the total percentage of the population vaccinated to be able to rely on population immunity.

Why can't people understand that continuing with mitigation measures such as mask wearing and keeping a safe distance makes returning to a form of lockdown less likely?

What’s an elementary occupation?

I'll continue to wear a mask, I tend to double mask if I'm going somewhere enclosed, but also wear a mask if I'm outside, although not in my own garden.

It seems to me that making mask wearing a matter of personal discretion can be looked at as being in the same way of thinking as saying leaving it to personal discretion whether to have one's car checked with an MOT test.

This article fom last weekend’s Guardian/Observer:

www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

If I were 80 or over, I’d still be exercising caution until we reach peak vaccination and infection numbers from Delta start to come down.

I'm a long way from that age but shall continue to wear a mask in indoor spaces until those two things are achieved. It's no hardship to do so just like friends who have worked all the way though the pandemic in customer-facing roles and say they now regard mask-wearing as second nature.

Those friends who work in shops and other service roles, for example, the Royal Mail, have seen a high incidence of infections among their colleagues but it's unclear whether they became infected by contact with customers or from family members and other social interactions.

Well, at least we now know why that picture of Hancock was released. He was far more cautious about the lifting of restrictions whereas the new health minister seems happy to go along with what Johnson and the Covid Recovery Group want.

I have had both vaccinations but, owing to my underlying health condition, I have developed no antibodies. I am still at risk from Covid. While others on here believe that, even if they contract Covid, they will not be too poorly, for me, being seriously ill is a possibility that I cannot afford to ignore.

Like many CEV, I have been shielding for such a long time but medication keeps me relatively well. I am fit and active, I take exercise but away from others. I want to see family and get away from my house and meet other people out and about. Family and close friends understand and take precautions on my behalf when we visit each other. I don't feel able to eat inside a restaurant (but am thoroughly fed up with my own food). I also dislike using public toilets too which is restricting if I want to travel.

I will have to continue to wear a mask when I go out - apart from scrupulous hygiene, it is all I have to protect myself. Also, I am a risk to others because I could be carrying Covid.

I think far too many have suffered during the pandemic and only want them to be able to get on with their lives. However, I'm worried that I will be ridiculed for continuing to wear a mask and taking precautions if restrictions are lifted completely. I would make a plea to those who say they will stop wearing masks as if is an affront to them and a bar to their freedom, to consider that it is not cowardice that keeps me masked, just a desire to stay alive and perhaps find my own 'normal' as treatments improve with time.