The decision to end restrictions is dangerous and premature, unethical and illogical.

PippaZ

Why all the desperation to "return to normal" and who defines what is normal?

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change. [Charles Darwin]

We seem to be shunning adaptability. So what if we have to have pubs with fewer customers? They will have to charge more and we may have to go out less frequently or more will open. So what if we have to pay front-line workers more to do those jobs? They are the very people who will need to spend what they earn and keep the economy churning.

Why defy what so many scientists are saying? Is it just because the rich worry about not holding power? For this, they will sacrifice so many to either death or long-term illnesses? So what if they are no longer in government? We might have younger/brighter people who can move us successfully into the future. But of course, Boris's only aim is power. He has nothing to offer but his past ability to garner votes and ignore our democratic rights.

Change and a proper understanding of a pandemic would no doubt help the many. I listened to a Minister speaking; he seemed shocked. It was as if he has only just been briefed on what is happening. Have all but the favoured few been kept in the dark?

Why not look to the future with the possibility that when the world recovers from this we could have better lives, not those the dinosaurs of this government would inflict on us.

Good post

maddyone

Whitewave, we’re not talking about side effects, we’re talking about possible, unknown repercussions from the vaccine if children are vaccinated. If, as a possible example, it was found that one of the vaccines caused cancer after five or ten years, then most of us have more to fear from dying of Covid than possibly getting cancer in ten years. But a child of ten, highly unlikely to die from Covid, developing cancer in ten years, could lose almost his entire life.

You don't appear to care much about teenagers. Strange really. Both ZOE and the REACT study have estimates for the number of children with long Covid, ranging from 4-8%. Other studies have estimated the figure to be higher. Nobody knows how long the symptoms will last. The chances of long Covid are higher than any known side effects from vaccines.

If vaccination isn't possible (and it is), there need to be mitigations. Every single classroom needs fitting with windows that open properly and CO2 detectors as a minimum.

Australian clinicians are becoming alarmed at the level of serious illness in their young and the amount in the icu.

Even 17 year olds due to go to university in the autumn aren't being vaccinated.

Whitewavemark2

Australian clinicians are becoming alarmed at the level of serious illness in their young and the amount in the icu.

New Zealand has an uprising of cases of children with non-Covid illnesses in hospital and PICU’s. They are putting it down to lowered immune response due to less mixing and catching everyday viruses.

One of our GN members has had a GC in PICU in New Zealand.

Whitewavemark2

Australian clinicians are becoming alarmed at the level of serious illness in their young and the amount in the icu.

Go and find yourself a brick wall. The Jacks and Jills are OK.

growstuff

Even 17 year olds due to go to university in the autumn aren't being vaccinated.

growstuff those going to Uni will be 18 by August, there have been reports today reducing the time between first and second vaccines to 4 weeks, so they can be fully vaccinated by the time they go to Uni.

You don’t appear to care much about teenagers.

What a nasty comment. But nothing less than I expected!

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

Australian clinicians are becoming alarmed at the level of serious illness in their young and the amount in the icu.

Go and find yourself a brick wall. The Jacks and Jills are OK.

? so much of it about. I feel sad.

The chances of long Covid are higher than any known side effects from vaccines.

And you know all the side effects from these vaccines on five year olds? Or ten year olds?
No? I thought not!

There have been 4000 covid admissions to hospital of children and 20 deaths according to this article - it will be more now as the numbers are obviously rocketing in that age group at the moment.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/doctors-rise-ae-children-admissions-20895092

Thank God we have responsible pediatricians to oversee the health of our children.

Absolutely maddyone, their concerns should be heard.

maddyone

Thank God we have responsible pediatricians to oversee the health of our children.

I echo that thought.

The Jacks and Jills are OK what a ridiculous statement!!!

I am concerned for all children/teenagers for both their mental and physical health, but hey ho twist people’s posts to suit your own agendas as per normal.

I agree GrannyGravy13 and I agree with you too maddyone with regard to the post "you don't appear to care much about teenagers".

Just because not everyone agrees, don't assume that they don't care and don't assume that you care more than someone else.

I recommend folk to go on YouTube and follow Dr John Campbell. He is a very interesting man. He is discussing this.

I never thought I’d say this WWM2 but for once I agree with you.
May I add a sixth idea - those who are anxious might become increasingly concerned after 19th July and therefore less inclined to go out.
Furthermore one in twenty is a non-responder to the vaccines so won’t be protected.
I’d prefer to wait till August and hope Boris delays. I can appreciate that summer is the time to do this, that people have lockdown fatigue, that many have suffered mentally and that the economy needs to reboot but the currently proposed date is premature imo.

It would indeed be wonderful if we could happily vaccinate all children from a few months old to 18. But we can’t, it wouldn’t be ethical. It’s a case of fools rush in where angels fear to tread I’m afraid. Other vaccines have been found to be safe for children, and in due course, it may be found that these ones are too. But we don’t yet know.

maddyone

It would indeed be wonderful if we could happily vaccinate all children from a few months old to 18. But we can’t, it wouldn’t be ethical. It’s a case of fools rush in where angels fear to tread I’m afraid. Other vaccines have been found to be safe for children, and in due course, it may be found that these ones are too. But we don’t yet know.

We can still be patient and wait until all adults are doubly vaccinated, then open up.

Although looking at the television, I can see an almighty spike on the horizon unfortunately,

Whitewavemark2 I do not think we are poles apart.
This Government

I don't think we will be seeing jabs for the under twelves this year anyway. It just isn't that straightforward and there are too many uncertainties.

Oops sorry

This Government decided after test events generating minimal numbers of infections to go ahead with the G7, Wimbledon and Euro 2020 the semis and finals at full capacity.

They cannot expect the rest of the U.K. to continue under restrictions after the last few weeks, right or wrong?

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 that is what I posted, Whitewavemark2 disagrees with both of us!

I certainly disagree with your commitment to opening up on 19th.

The Lancet article was not just signed by Independent Sage, their is also an hour long video in which a number of people took part in the discussion., and I am unclear why that makes their advice invalid.

alegrais has not made her opinion known regarding to the 19th unless I’ve missed it.

To be clear what I'm saying;

The main signatories of the letter are the members of Independent SAGE, I'll say again, that doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't make them right either.
There are 122 (I think) supporting signatures. I googled a few, excluding the ones based overseas.

Elizabeth Stokoe is a British scientist and Professor of Social Interaction at Loughborough University where she studies conversation analysis.
Dr Usama Kadri is an applied mathematician and engineer studying acoustic gravity waves.
This is Dr Julia Patterson: www.everydoctor.org.uk/team

Now I didn't google everybody and I'm sure some of them are experts in the field of epidemiology and microbiology. But not all of them; don't think 122 medical scientists with knowledge in the field have signed this.

As for the online summit, it was an Independent SAGE meeting with a few invited guests....one of them was Phillipa Whitford, an SNP MP and surgeon. I respect her very much, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything she says.

I follow Dr Campbell. He’s very good at interpreting the results but I’ve lost confidence as he is still advocating for VitD and Ivermectin. Follow him by all means, but also follow Tim Spector, @sailorooscout, Speigelhalter….. then think about all the information and draw conclusions from that.

As for the 19th, no comment. I don’t live in England. I live in a nation where we have a Head of Government whose policies you may not agree with, but at least she can communicate with the population effectively about COVID and she doesn’t do things just to be popular and keep her job.