The decision to end restrictions is dangerous and premature, unethical and illogical.

Alegrias1

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

While that is going on, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue with at least some restrictions e.g. masks and home-working where possible?

Yes, I agree. Move to Scotland. Or Wales. . Or are you already in Scotland? Lost track....

But let's also stop accusing governments of genocide and experiments. (Not you, I know FarNorth)

You need to speak to the scientists worldwide then because I was quoting from their summit - which you haven’t watched btw.

You know what I've watched do you?

Even if they are scientists worldwide, calling it genocide or an experiment is totally uncalled for. It doesn't matter who they are, they should be circumspect in what they say.

So what would you call it?

If you had watched it and was able to critique their theories/summary etc, you wouldn’t have stopped for days.

So yes it is a good guess that you haven't yet spent a valuable hour watching their analysis.

They were talking to the scientific community. There is no need to be circumspect, they were asked their opinion and gave it -honestly.

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

While that is going on, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue with at least some restrictions e.g. masks and home-working where possible?

Yes, I agree. Move to Scotland. Or Wales. . Or are you already in Scotland? Lost track....

But let's also stop accusing governments of genocide and experiments. (Not you, I know FarNorth)

You need to speak to the scientists worldwide then because I was quoting from their summit - which you haven’t watched btw.

You know what I've watched do you?

Even if they are scientists worldwide, calling it genocide or an experiment is totally uncalled for. It doesn't matter who they are, they should be circumspect in what they say.

FarNorth

Already in Scotland, I'm glad to say, but horrified by what our neighbour is about to do.

Suggesting a move, to those in England who are horrified, seems a bit flippant.

Yes it was flippant, I apologise.

Alegrias1

^While that is going on, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue with at least some restrictions e.g. masks and home-working where possible?^

Yes, I agree. Move to Scotland. Or Wales. . Or are you already in Scotland? Lost track....

But let's also stop accusing governments of genocide and experiments. (Not you, I know FarNorth)

You need to speak to the scientists worldwide then because I was quoting from their summit - which you haven’t watched btw.

Glad I live in Wales. It is not that difficult to wear a mask in shops and on public transport. I don't feel restricted at all but may if everyone was not using masks in crowded places.

Already in Scotland, I'm glad to say, but horrified by what our neighbour is about to do.

Suggesting a move, to those in England who are horrified, seems a bit flippant.

While that is going on, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue with at least some restrictions e.g. masks and home-working where possible?

Yes, I agree. Move to Scotland. Or Wales. . Or are you already in Scotland? Lost track....

But let's also stop accusing governments of genocide and experiments. (Not you, I know FarNorth)

what we need is a sensible look at what the situation is and a proper risk analysis.

While that is going on, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue with at least some restrictions e.g. masks and home-working where possible?

I'm as impatient as anyone to live 'normally' again but not if it's dangerous.
It seems like running across a busy road, instead of waiting for the lights to change and the traffic to stop.

I'm so fed up with this mantra that "its not like flu". We know its not flu, its COVID. It is however "exactly" like living through all the diseases you list "PippaZ", to which you might add typhoid, there was an outbreak of typhoid near where I lived when I was a child, and people had to isolate and do all the other things we have to do with infectious diseases.

The use of phrases like "run riot" are just indicative of the level of exaggeration that we're seeing with this. That's not what maddyone said, not at all. Its absolutely unacceptable to tell people that we have to get used to living with this virus that they are devil may care and that they don't care.

rosie1959

PippaZ can’t help wondering when someone makes a straight forward comment it has to be picked to bits
What impositions do you think I see
I have no rules to impose use your common sense and get on with your life

What do you think a discussion is about? Do you think we should all just leave things we believe to be untrue? Why bother being part of a discussion if you feel that is the case?

It is those who have decided not to take others into account with how they behave who are inflicting their "rules" on other people's lives.

maddyone

Living with the virus means exactly the same as living with flu. In other words, it’s not going away anytime soon, and we may probably have to have regular vaccinations, just like we do with flu. Almost every winter people die from flu. Every death is sad, but when older people become ill with flu and go on to develop chest infections that kill them, society accepts this as a normal end of life. Covid will also continue to kill some people, but the majority, like with flu,will suffer mild symptoms and get well. That is what people mean when they say living with Covid. I think.

It is not "exactly" the same as living with flu. Only flu is the same as living with flu.

I could say to you that it is "exactly" the same as living with chicken pox, mumps, german measles, measles, whooping cough, polio or tuberculosis. All of these can be vaccinated against and all require reporting to Public Health England and require the person to quarantine as does Covid-19.

Just because people die from flu does not justify allowing CV to run riot as some seem to be suggesting. Let's just hope you and others with this devil may care attitude do not lead to you or I getting it and dying. I should not be happy with that although it does sound as if you don't care.

People do write things like that though FarNorth, and I find it annoying, sorry

I don't know what the answer is about Long Covid and I've never pretended to. What I was drawing attention to is that there are posters who will use the existence of Long Covid as an argument for continuing restrictions, when what we need is a sensible look at what the situation is and a proper risk analysis. Maybe that's what "living with the virus" means as well.

Alegrias1
1. I never suggested such a thing.
2. I would, indeed, be more likely to word it that way, but the worry is the same.

What is your reply to those who are worried about Long Covid?

How about "Stop being so dismissive of what other people do and don't understand, implying they are anti-science idiots with their heads in the sand?"

I might suggest they word their concern as: "I still think Long Covid is a big issue though, that's a worry for me"

Alegrias1

Good post maddyone. I agree.

But someone will come along in a moment to yell "Do you not understand Long Covid!!!"

What is your answer to those people?

- A little more than 'Yes, I do' would be helpful.

I think Boris is thinking we have to start somewhere. And I agree we have to live with this and just be careful as individuals.

Why can't England start, as the rest of the UK is doing, with much reduced restrictions but still compulsory mask wearing in some indoor situations, some physical distancing and a recommendation to continue working from home where possible?

Would the majority really find that so difficult.

Clinically Extremely Vulnerable make up 3.8m of the population

Baroness Sal Britton has tweeted that advice for the Clinically Extremely Vulnerable has eventually been updated to:

“Don’t mix with the unvaccinated
Meet outside
Don’t go to work if possible”

In a shop, dentist or NHS setting this is impossible.

I think the illogicality of the rules, the contradictions and now the complete removal of everything is just madness, with the present data. At least sustain some basic precautions such as mask wearing. Said in paper today that countries that introduced compulsory masks early as a pragmatic precaution, had less overall deaths in first wave! We don't need 100% proof of workability to do something, and infact now there is lots of evidence of masks reducing infection

Well put maddyone

Most probably Alegrias.

Good post maddyone. I agree.

But someone will come along in a moment to yell "Do you not understand Long Covid!!!"

Living with the virus means exactly the same as living with flu. In other words, it’s not going away anytime soon, and we may probably have to have regular vaccinations, just like we do with flu. Almost every winter people die from flu. Every death is sad, but when older people become ill with flu and go on to develop chest infections that kill them, society accepts this as a normal end of life. Covid will also continue to kill some people, but the majority, like with flu,will suffer mild symptoms and get well. That is what people mean when they say living with Covid. I think.

PippaZ can’t help wondering when someone makes a straight forward comment it has to be picked to bits
What impositions do you think I see
I have no rules to impose use your common sense and get on with your life