Is it ethical to require a vaccine passport for entry to a club?

Being vaccinated doesn't mean you aren't infected with the virus so I don't see why just proving you have been vaccinated allows you entry to places over those who haven't - you could have the virus and they might not!

I'm 54 and have had both vaccinations and whilst entering a nightclub again will never happen, I may wish to visit a venue where "Covid passports" will be required in the future. No problem for me obviously but if I happen to be with a friend who isn't vaccinated (for whatever reason), it doesn't seem fair that I am allowed in but he/she isn't - see my earlier comment regarding one or both of us possibly still being infected, regardless of vaccination status.

I feel for the younger generation who are effectively being forced to be vaccinated otherwise they won't be able to enjoy the "normal" things that young people do. Covid isn't the only nasty virus/illness that we can catch from being too close to someone who is infected and, vaccinated or not, we can all still have it.

Some of the comments on this Forum are getting quite nasty, I had hoped that I had found a site that wasn't aggressive and judgemental like others I had been on (we are all entitled to our own opinion) but Gransnet seems to be going down the same road so think I may well not bother looking at it in future.

I cannot see why it should or could be consider unethical to require people to show a vaccination passport anywhere at all.

Demonstrating that you are doing what you can to protect yourself and others from infection cannot be either unethical or immoral.

Here (Denmark) the passport does not require a smart-phone and an app as you can download it to your computer
and print it.

A friend who lives in Germany told me that there you go to the nearest pharmacy and ask them to print out your vaccination attest.

So presumably the U K could do something similar.

I had to use proof to get into the Hampton Court Flower show and 14 year old showed proof of her lateral flow. Another grandchild does shifts for YMCA as most of the residents are refusing the vaccine so no it is not unethical.

BlueBelle

Ok I agree to a point but does that then mean anyone who can’t have a vaccine through no fault of there own, can’t go out with their mates

Surely if it is unsafe for them to have the vaccine is unsafe for them to mix at night clubs etc. with large numbers of unvaccinated unmasked people.
Personally, I think we should have gone down the French route before we opened up.

Good post Alegrias. Glad to hear you survived such a terrible illness and are here to join in with the rest of us on here.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother and grandmother MoorlandMooner. I generally try not to comment on people who share their personal reasons for health choices but I'm going to this time.

I had a serious, massive bilateral pulmonary embolism nearly 10 years ago. They have no idea what caused it, but my health is permanently impaired. I had no qualms at all taking the AZ vaccine.

The type of blood clots that result from the AZ vaccine are very different to the ones I had. I know that I was at no more risk from the vaccine than anybody else. I'm not telling you this to berate you for not taking the vaccine, but I hope it will prompt you to find out more about the side effects and reconsider whether or not to have it.

MoorlandMooner, you have considered the situation and made a decision based on family history. That is your right and quite probably the best decision. I don’t know your age, but the fact that you are writing on here, and the description of your lifestyle suggests you are older, like most of the rest of us on here. It sounds as though you don’t have a huge risk of contracting Covid from the lifestyle you describe. Nonetheless you could consider speaking to your GP by phone and see if it would be possible for you to have a vaccine that is not the AZ vaccine. I had Pfizer, very few side effects (a sore arm and a mild headache, plus feeling rather tired.) Anyway, that is up to you. When most of the rest of us are vaccinated, that will help to protect you and others who cannot have the vaccine. Since it sounds as if you are unlikely to go clubbing, I don’t think you’ll miss a vaccine passport for that, but you may need one if you wish to go abroad in the future.

Muffinthemoo. I am sorry to hear you've had Covid twice and hope you've made a good recovery.

We agree that evidence shows it is possible for those unvaccinated and those vaccinated to pass on Covid.

I will be honest and face a barrage here.....I have chosen not to have the vaccine. I have my reasons which are nothing to do with facebook conspiracy theories - I don't have facebook.

It's also not because I couldn't be bothered and I have never worn a foil hat - yet! My reason is because I saw my grandmother and mother die of blood clots and, whilst I would much rather not die just yet, if I have to I will take my chance of dying of Covid rather than go through the agony they did.

I will certainly reconsider my decision when it is possible for me to choose the vaccine I am given.

I live in a remote place, with very low Covid rates. I encounter very few people from whom to catch the virus or pass it on. Having read the data I have made a reasoned judgement and will face the consequences.

It might be the wrong decision, but it is my decision. I am not relying on anyone else having the vaccine to protect me. I follow all other guidelines to the letter when I go out, mask, distance, sanitizer. And when I say go out...I mean I walk alone in the hills, swim alone in the sea or go to the supermarket weekly.

If because I don't have a vaccine passport I am unable to go anywhere at all including my nearest supermarket then that is how I will have to live. I'm not sure it is fair as both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can pass on the virus....and perhaps it could be true that a vaccinated person without a mask who goes to the pub or football or clubbing might be more likely to pass on the virus to me at the supermarket, than me them. Still, I will fully accept the decision and live by the rules.

To be called a 'plague bearer' and judged before you know my story is very harsh.

It's probably descending into what GNHQ would call a bunfight.

I think it must be the heat that’s getting to me but I’m beginning to lose track of who is supporting what and why. Or not supporting things.

MoorlandMooner 'Your post is the most judgemental, unkind thing I've ever read on here. Utterly vile.'

Stick around. It can get a LOT worse.

MoorlandMooner

muffinthemoo

I am fine with with people who choose not to be vaccinated being denied participation in public spaces. Proof of vaccine, or proof of medically necessary exemption, or stay at home.

Many countries require exactly this proof for children to attend school. I think we could fairly require it for adults to attend Sainsburys. The plague bearers can order their shopping in, or get a clue and get vaccinated like the rest of us.

Someone else’s right to not be vaccinated cannot trump my right to not be coughed over and infected when I’m trying to buy a loaf.

"The plague bearers can order their shopping in, or get a clue and get vaccinated like the rest of us. Someone else’s right to not be vaccinated cannot trump my right to not be coughed over and infected when I’m trying to buy a loaf."

If you're so confident the vaccine renders people incapable of being plague bearers, why are you so afraid that someone might cough over you.

Your post is the most judgemental, unkind thing I've ever read on here. Utterly vile.

I’m not confident of that, because I’m not a moron and it has been agreed from early tests by all parties involved in developing and administering the vaccines that they absolutely do NOT render people “incapable” of passing the disease. There is much evidence that they reduce the rate of transmission, but they do not by any means eliminate transmission.

I still want the force of the law to be used, as it has been for almost 18 months of social restriction, to ensure that the risks of transmission are lowered using the best tool available to us, which right now is vaccination.

I have had Covid twice. I do not want a third or fourth dose. I do not give a fig whether that makes me “vile” or “unkind” to not want some tinfoil hatted anti vaxxer to make me sick again. I am judgemental of people who put their Facebook conspiracies before the safety of their fellow citizens. I make absolutely no apology for that. Those who for reasons of medical necessity cannot be vaccinated are even more vulnerable than I am. Should they be kept hostage at home because those who could be vaccinated can’t be bothered? Is that fair?

Unmusical music!

Autocorrect thinks it's an oxymoron

Well, I just can't wait to be in a crush of sweaty people all waving their arms around to a musical "music" and looking as if they're on another planet.

I've applied for my certificate already.

It would be easy to take a screen shot of someone else’s QR code or PCR test result, as happened at the football.

muffinthemoo

I am fine with with people who choose not to be vaccinated being denied participation in public spaces. Proof of vaccine, or proof of medically necessary exemption, or stay at home.

Many countries require exactly this proof for children to attend school. I think we could fairly require it for adults to attend Sainsburys. The plague bearers can order their shopping in, or get a clue and get vaccinated like the rest of us.

Someone else’s right to not be vaccinated cannot trump my right to not be coughed over and infected when I’m trying to buy a loaf.

"The plague bearers can order their shopping in, or get a clue and get vaccinated like the rest of us. Someone else’s right to not be vaccinated cannot trump my right to not be coughed over and infected when I’m trying to buy a loaf."

If you're so confident the vaccine renders people incapable of being plague bearers, why are you so afraid that someone might cough over you.

Your post is the most judgemental, unkind thing I've ever read on here. Utterly vile.

The forgers are way ahead of it already Gagajo .

vegansrock

What’s the betting there will be loads of fake vaccination passports - just like age ID youngsters have to have- a quick glance by a doorman is all they get. Not difficult to get around.

Unfortunately.
France Info are saying that forty false digital vaccine papers have been found. They came from a pharmacist who sold them at € 250 each.

If it has a QR code on it, anyone checking it would have a scanner (can get them as aps on phones). It'd be easily checked.

You have a paper passport and a photocard driving licence already. A physical vaccine ID card would not be difficult to implement.

Or forge.

As others have said, not having a smartphone isn’t a problem, a paper version is available.

Sometimes, for the greater good, we have to do things we may instinctively not wish to do. During the last war, that may have been the case. This is a war against Covid, and in order to defeat it (as far as we can) we may have to do things we do not agree with, such as wear a mask (for some people this is a great infringement of their rights) or get a vaccination. Vaccination is complicated by the fact that a very tiny minority may be affected adversely by the vaccine. I don’t think anyone was adversely affected by wearing a mask. However for the greater good, it seems to me that vaccination passports are necessary at this time. Hopefully not forever though.

You can choose between paper or on the phone so no need fir a smart phone. We chose paper passports which were sent to our address a couple of days after we applied.
I said earlier that it’s my understanding that this is required in many parts of Europe to get into bars restaurants cafes etc. They seem perfectly happy to do so because it protects themselves and everyone else.

That certainly wasnt the case though was it, perhaps right be possible to talk to some of these frightened people rather than letting Johnson of all people introduce legislation around bodily autonomy. I wouldnt trust him with my goldfish, if I had one, let alone an issue as complex as this.

Alegrias1, I'm frightened of things too. One thing is a full-blown phobia (I've spent a lot of money trying to overcome it, very unsuccessfully) but I still do it.

Many of the drugs we are treated with, for cancer, for example, can be VERY toxic. But because they can be life saving, we screw up our courage and take them. This pandemic is the most serious thing any of us will ever experience. We all have to do our bit. Other than those that can't for medical reasons.

If there is ever to be any normality of life back, we all have to do our bit. Not just 55% (or whatever) of us, because that will just cause the problem to get worse.

As I said, it you are an anti vaxxer, you have a choice. It shouldn't be mandatory, but then you accept your life will be limited at times.

So we can do unethical things if some of us think they are sensible?