Is it just me who is terrified of the way this country and the whole world is turning out

How about caring for people who choose not to have the vaccine?
That's my current position.

The OP did not say anything racist, so your report was irrelevant.

The answer to the OP's question is "no"

Sadly she is not the only person who thinks this way. which might be one of the reasons that it will be very difficult for us to defeat the virus.

MissAdventure

How about caring for people who choose not to have the vaccine?
That's my current position.

And I get that- but it has been explained. No vaccination programme can be sucessful without a significant take up, 70% 1 and more.

So yes, do care, listen try to explain with facts- but at the end of the day, those who refuse put us all at risk, and vulnerable people even more. So it is fair to say they are being very selfish - this even more if they have taken the huge responsibility of professionally caring for the elderly and frail.

My point is that some of the people I care for in my role as a carer have declined the vaccine.
I've had mine.

Well done

MissAdventure that’s a difficult situation to be in and it’s one that hospital staff have been experiencing for a while. I’m glad you’ve had the vaccine. Stay safe.

I'm not looking for a round of applause, but people's opinions on whether it's ethical for people who need help with very close personal care to decline the vaccine.

I support their right to refuse, but don't relish the idea of catching covid and possibly passing it on to others.

As for knowing people who had covid, I know loads of them, including one of my friends family member who unfortunately has a compromised immune system with other array of illnesses and she was fine and recovered with no issues, the rest had a little temperature and had a headache but they all said if they could go to work, they would.

But Itsawelshthing you say in an earlier post, that the only socialising you do is with your family.

Thank goodness one of those you do know, wasn’t one of the 1000s who’ve been in a ICU on a ventilator or anyone suffering with long COVID?

I personally think we should do all we can to keep everyone safe and create less pressure on the NHS.

MissAdventure I feel very strongly that everyone exempting medical reasons should be vaccinated. I do not think it is right that anyone working in the health service who has close contact with patients and is responsible for their personal care, including those in a care home, should be allowed to put the health of those who care for them and their families at risk.

I'm not sure how I feel, apart from uneasy about it all.
The declining of the vaccine, the idea of making people have it - the whole conundrum.

Icke is a holocaust denier. If THAT is the calibre of people you chose to follow for your social/emotional health, I think you have a LOT more to worry about than just your vaccine refusal.

ALL vaccines have some risk attached. Historically, the first ones were very risky. BUT look how far medical science has come. I'd much rather be trying out a covid vaccine today than trying a smallpox variolation 300 years ago.

As I am SURE you know, you are much more at risk from covid than from the vaccine. And you are a BIG risk to the people you care for. I honestly think if you are not going to get the vaccine, you should find another job, where your choice poses less risk to a very vulnerable group of people.

I have worded my last post badly just to clarify. Patients except for medical reasons should be vaccinated so as to not put those who care for them at risk of covid.

I know quite a few people now who have had covid. A 32 year old friend died. Father of one, wife was 4 months pregnant with their second. My brother, younger than me. A friend, late 30s. Both now have long covid, unable to go back to work.

You're gambling with your life.

So, should care be refused to people who won't have the vaccine?
It has to work both ways.
I shouldn't be putting people at risk, and they (perhaps) owe me the same consideration.
Whether they are elderly, or frail, or live with a learning disability, they're still people who are (perhaps) being very selfish.

And how will that work, are you suggesting patients are forcibly vaccinated. People need to think about the ethics of this. It's actually quite complicated.

Sorry that was to Gwyneth .

I said in the beginning that the consent issue is huge, and far reaching.
It has taken years to get to the point of allowing certain people a choice in matters.
Is it ethical to now withdraw it?

MissAdventure

I'm not looking for a round of applause, but people's opinions on whether it's ethical for people who need help with very close personal care to decline the vaccine.

I support their right to refuse, but don't relish the idea of catching covid and possibly passing it on to others.

Totally agree that this is a very difficult question. If they need help that puts others at risk due to close proximity, body fluids, etc. then carers should have the choice to work with them or not. Ethically a very tough question, you have my total sympathy.

Galaxy no I don’t think people can be forcibly vaccinated but I think everything possible should be done to make them realise not only the risks to themselves but also the risks to the dedicated staff who are caring for them. Maybe using a scenario such as who do you think will be able to care for your needs if staff are infected with covid and can’t come to work. Or how would you feel if a member of staff is hospitalised as a result of people refusing to be vaccinated.

Sorry, itswelshthing.
I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

And yes I agree galaxy and missadventure the situation and ethics are complex.

You have a right to refuse the vaccine but, as stated by others, the people you care for in your job also have a right to be protected and to be informed. It would be prudent, if you are determined not to get the vaccine, to seek a new position. Of course you should be treated by the NHS if you become ill with Covid. It is an obligation on their part. Everyone has that right even if they are a convicted criminal. You are young and situations like this are scary and can cause you to lose hope. Most of us on here have lived through hard times when life seemed bleak but there is also hope of it becoming better and that can happen quite quickly. I came through the mid forties and fifties and suddenly we had the sixties which opened up a whole new world. I tell my grandchildren, who like you, get depressed that they are not as free as they were pre-covid, that life can change on the spin of a coin. And it will.

All I keep telling myself is that if/when we finally get ahead of the virus, and can sustain it without opening everything up then these issues will be easier to deal with.

My young neigbour's freedom and rights are being unfairly limited. He refuses to have driving lessons and to take his licence- but he constantly complains he is not allowed to drive the car his parents have bought for him.