Your idea of stable??

Also, Johnson seems to have forgotten his pledge to get the whole world vaccinated and no end of vaccines look as though they’re going to go out of date. I think it was Gordon Brown that was talking about this the other day.

I agree Daisymae.

The government and scientists seem to be completely ignoring the infection and death rates.

I find this deeply troubling. Why isn’t it even mentioned anymore except on the nightly news bulletins.

I also agree, we should all still be obliged to wear masks and social distancing brought back.

If and when these rates come down, I might feel more relaxed about covid.

Maybe this has been mentioned on here before but it’s worth repeating - the covid deaths reported daily on the BBC news are the number who have died WITH covid, not necessarily WITH it.
That fact is worth remembering, as it throws a different light on the numbers.

In addition as others have said we do a lot more testing in this country than others so obviously our numbers will appear to be higher.

All in all we are doing pretty well here considering the pandemic hasn’t disappeared.

If only we could persuade those stupid misguided millions who are still resisting the vaccine to come forward we would be in an even better position.

You have a perspective and experience that few of us share maddyone, and I'm always interested in what you have to say.

I think you make extremely valid points Alegrias. You’re right, we don’t live in a police state. The problem for me is that having had Covid badly once, I’m extremely anxious about getting it again, even though theoretically I wouldn’t be as ill a second time, having now had the vaccinations and having had Covid itself.
I do agree with vaccine passports though, even if their use was more limited than I suggested in my above post. France and Holland have them and we’re a similar society to those countries. I was very surprised today by how few people were wearing a mask as we sailed on the ferry to the Isle of Wight. I do think we live in a me, me, me society unfortunately, where sadly often little thought for other people is shown, but that’s a different discussion.

It’s my opinion that life should be made uncomfortable for vaccination refusers. To do this a vaccine passport would need to be introduced. If people found they couldn’t go into a pub, a restaurant, work, a cinema, a theatre, or a club, I think it would effectively remove a lot of people’s objections.
When we are vaccinated, we’re not just protecting ourselves, we are protecting one another. We are responsible and unselfish. We are society minded. We care about ourselves and our families and friends. We care about those we meet in shops, theatres, and other social places. Those who do not get vaccinated (unless a medical reason) do not care about anyone. They are arrogant and selfish.

I don't agree with this at all maddyone. I think everybody should be vaccinated, and as quickly as possible, but we can't force medical treatment on anybody, and we can't make their lives uncomfortable if they have different views than ours. Enforcing a passport before someone can go to work, won't change their views, it'll make them think they live in a Police State. Which it very nearly would be, in actual fact.

People who are not vaccinated are not terrorists out to make us all ill. Standing next to an unvaccinated person doesn't mean you get COVID, I'm not even sure it means you have a statistically significant increase in the risk of getting Covid. IMO, they are misguided, they are wrong, but we can't go around making people's lives a misery because they have different opinions to ourselves. We don't enforce medical treatment on anybody in this country.

The vaccine uptake in this country has been unprecedented, we should focus on the fact that there are more than adequate numbers of people taking up the vaccination to make the program effective.

maddyone

Hopefully the Covid vaccination will stop us from becoming seriously unwell if we’re unfortunate enough to be infected. My friend and her husband have just had Covid, they’re still isolating, but because they were double vaccinated they weren’t seriously poorly and are recovering quicker than they might have done. However there are many double vaccinated patients in hospital I believe, so where does that leave us?

I have friends that have been infected once vaccinated and like yours maddyone they weren’t particularly ill
There are people in hospital and unfortunately this seems to be prevalent in the older age groups according to the ONS especially the over 85s who may need more medical care than the young
I suppose I thought about it when discussing how to encourage people to get vaccinated and it didn’t seem a very good advert for vaccination if it didn’t change people’s perception of getting Covid

Hopefully the Covid vaccination will stop us from becoming seriously unwell if we’re unfortunate enough to be infected. My friend and her husband have just had Covid, they’re still isolating, but because they were double vaccinated they weren’t seriously poorly and are recovering quicker than they might have done. However there are many double vaccinated patients in hospital I believe, so where does that leave us?

MaizieD

^We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant^

In all but a tiny percentage of cases flu has no after effects. Covid does. It attacks the internal organs and the brain. Its after affects can be long term debilitating and even life altering.

There is no comparison with flu *at all*

But surely the vaccination is to stop us being seriously effected
I didn’t compare flu with Covid I compared the trust in the vaccine

growstuff

Indeed death does always end life, but there's no reason to add another cause and to hasten the end of life.

If it's OK with you AJKW, I'd rather hang on for a few more years and I'd rather not be breathed on by some infected person. I'd also like to lead a relatively normal life.

I'm right there with you, growstuff

We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant

In all but a tiny percentage of cases flu has no after effects. Covid does. It attacks the internal organs and the brain. Its after affects can be long term debilitating and even life altering.

There is no comparison with flu at all

Just an observation although many including me are waiting patiently for their booster vaccination I do get the feeling people don’t seem to trust the vaccine they have had to do it’s job
Obviously people can still catch it but from my experience those who do have mild symptoms
We have the flu jab and trust that but no so the Covid vaccination We don’t stay away from visiting or eating out in case we catch. flu which is very unpleasant

GreenGran78

Does anyone know what the average daily death rate was from common 'flu, pre-Covid?
It would be interesting to compare it to the present Covid death rates. It was just accepted that a certain number of people would die of 'flu every year, and no-one questioned it.

Sorry, I'm in a hurry, so don't have time to look up Scotland, but these are the figures for England and Wales for 2018 and 2019.

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/influenzadeathsin20182019and2020

GrrenGran78 On average 30,000 people a year die of flu and pneumonia according to ONS. Assuming most deaths are over the coldest 6 months, that’s 5,000 deaths per month (obviously varies a lot), or 166 a day over the winter.

Anniel

It's all the governments fault again!!! Well no it is NOT. It is the fault of the people who refuse to get vaccinated. In the Caribbean the majority of the indigenous population simply refuse to have the jab. St Lucia is second to bottom of the list . St Vincent and the Grenadines are the worst. I have spoken to a few Caribbean people here in London and they all told me of family members who, for religious reasons or because of slaves being given injections ( I know nothing about that) they are mistrustful of such medicines. Our housekeeper refuses and so do her adult children. She says she has a healthy body and eats well and looks after herself and does not need it. She works all day masked at the house and is not giving in. Doctors are tearing their hair out and in London we have a lot of ethnic minorities who refuse too. Some people have the mistaken opinion that they will live forever. I do not want to live in a country where jabs are compulsory but I obey the rules about masks in public and on public transport and the government has to get the economy on its feet again. It is up to us to protect ourselves. You can only do so much to persuade people. I must say I was astonished to read that people working in hospitals and care homes still have not been vaccinated! It is simply ignorance. You cannot legislate against stupidity!

It’s my opinion that life should be made uncomfortable for vaccination refusers. To do this a vaccine passport would need to be introduced. If people found they couldn’t go into a pub, a restaurant, work, a cinema, a theatre, or a club, I think it would effectively remove a lot of people’s objections.
When we are vaccinated, we’re not just protecting ourselves, we are protecting one another. We are responsible and unselfish. We are society minded. We care about ourselves and our families and friends. We care about those we meet in shops, theatres, and other social places. Those who do not get vaccinated (unless a medical reason) do not care about anyone. They are arrogant and selfish.

growstuff

Incidentally, case numbers are underreported. That's because people who have Covid more than once aren't included, nor are those who are asymptomatic (usually because they don't know they're infected) and those who only have mild symptoms, recover quickly and don't bother reporting.

So if I am unfortunate enough to get it again, God forbid, I won’t count in the numbers? I don’t know how to explain how that makes me feel, except just why?

And this is despite the very concerning recent news that so many people were told they were negative despite actually being positive!

He is talking a load of rubbish and the government has their heads buried in the sand. We, the uk, are deemed a high risk area within the world. So Johnson has shown we are world beating at something.!1

Well hello everyone. My husband and I have just brought our nine year old grandson to the Isle of Wight for a short break as he’s on half term. The terms and conditions of the ferry company stated that everyone travelling on the ferry (except children) are required to wear a mask, onboard the ferry in inside spaces, and inside the terminal buildings. Almost no one was wearing a mask in either the terminal buildings or on the ferry. This is the behaviour that leads me to believe that many in the population believe it is all over. Why? It must be the lack of guidance and leadership shown by the government. I’m very concerned about what may happen during the winter months.

Does anyone know what the average daily death rate was from common 'flu, pre-Covid?
It would be interesting to compare it to the present Covid death rates. It was just accepted that a certain number of people would die of 'flu every year, and no-one questioned it.

Callistemon

^Boris Johnson told reporters on a visit to Bristol that officials were still 'looking into' what went wrong at the testing centre. But the Prime Minister insisted that the fiasco did not affect 'overall' cases numbers.^

Despite having contracted Covid himself, Boris Johnson has yet to fully grasp how it is spread.

However Kit Yates, a senior lecturer at the University of Bath and a member of the Independent Sage scientific advisory group, warned that knowing the number of false negatives doesn't 'come near to the cost of the mistake'.

He added: 'Many of these people will have been forced into school or work, potentially infecting others.

'^This could be part of the reason behind some of the recent rises we've seen. It's really important that we've had lateral flow tests which, at the very least, allowed us to understand there was an issue even if people weren't allowed to act on the results^.

How on earth can Johnson claim that it hasn't affected overall case numbers?

Indeed death does always end life, but there's no reason to add another cause and to hasten the end of life.

If it's OK with you AJKW, I'd rather hang on for a few more years and I'd rather not be breathed on by some infected person. I'd also like to lead a relatively normal life.

‘Hundreds of people dying each week’ ?did you know in the UK approximately 1700 people die everyday.
It is completely normal to die at the end of life, but unfortunately the vulnerable are at risk of dying from any virus or bacterial infection that happens to be in general circulation. I think is referred to as the circle of life.

Hello, its your friendly neighbourhood fact checker here.

I believe the ONS figures on deaths show that we are currently running below the average for the time of year.

This is not the case.

I believe the ONS figures on deaths show that we are currently running below the average for the time of year. Far from seeing excess deaths attributed to the pandemic, we are still seeing fewer deaths from pneumonia, flu, etc. This is why there is no immediate rush back to full restrictions.
Wearing masks as the cold and flu season ramps up, is a pretty sensible thing to do, pandemic or not. I think many people are observing the guidance they feel appropriate.