Your idea of stable??

Well I know Dr Bharat Pankhania down this way is pretty insensed about it all and is demanding a full enquiry.

Boris Johnson told reporters on a visit to Bristol that officials were still 'looking into' what went wrong at the testing centre. But the Prime Minister insisted that the fiasco did not affect 'overall' cases numbers.

Despite having contracted Covid himself, Boris Johnson has yet to fully grasp how it is spread.

However Kit Yates, a senior lecturer at the University of Bath and a member of the Independent Sage scientific advisory group, warned that knowing the number of false negatives doesn't 'come near to the cost of the mistake'.

He added: 'Many of these people will have been forced into school or work, potentially infecting others.

'^This could be part of the reason behind some of the recent rises we've seen. It's really important that we've had lateral flow tests which, at the very least, allowed us to understand there was an issue even if people weren't allowed to act on the results^.

*Neither Immensa nor Dante labs are accredited*:

Contrary to some media reports, neither Immensa Health Clinic Ltd nor its related company Dante Labs Ltd is currently accredited by UKAS.

UKAS is the National Accreditation Body for the United Kingdom. UKAS is appointed by government, to assess and accredit organisations that provide services including certification, testing, inspection and calibration.

www.ukas.com/resources/latest-news/statement-immensa-health-clinic-dante-labs/

MaizieD

Callistemon

Josianne one factor may be that people who took PCR tests were told by the Wolverhampton laboratory, where south-west testing was done, that they were negative and consequently went out into the community, to work and school and thus spread the virus.

That is a big scandal, involving some 40,000plus results.

As a matter of interest, the lab's contract was one of those 'crony contracts'. It had only been set up 4 months before the contract was given, apparently without any due diligence.

Just in case anyone's interested:

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1448933287796281365

People should read that thread. It's horrifying.

MayBee70

Thinking about 20-29 year olds. Maybe it’s because their immune system is still working pretty well at that age (without googling am I thinking of the hypothalamus gland?). It starts to drop of after that, doesn’t it, unless you keep yourself hyper fit. Many will have continued to mix with friends and have been exposed to small amounts of the virus over a period of time but won’t be exposed on a daily basis in the way that schoolchildren are. This is a baffling, complicated virus. I remember doctors at the beginning saying they’d never come across anything like it and that hasn’t changed. We’re all playing Russian roulette with our lives while this virus is still with us.

The immune system doesn't stop people being infected by a novel virus, however robust it is (and whatever the quacks say). However, it could be that their systems are generally in good shape and that they hardly noticed that they were infected.

Increasing age is associated with an increase in PRR genes and ACE2 receptors and maybe some other proteins, which make it more likely that the human body will be affected. The reasons aren't properly understood. Moreover, younger people are less likely to have so-called lifestyle conditions such as diabetes, lung disease and cardiovascular conditions, which mean the body is vulnerable to infection.

What's happening in schools is a result of almost no mitigations. Pupils have been forced to sit near each other in poorly ventilated classrooms and it was forbidden to wear masks. They have to go to school even if a family member is infected and close contacts aren't required to self-isolate. Even young adults don't have to work in those conditions.

Crikey it was only set up 3 weeks prior to the G7 summit in Carbis Bay. So anyone say in the hospitality trade there might have tested negative by mistake and carried on working? Makes you wonder.

Did the company lie about their set-up, the processes in place and the controls they used or did whoever awarded the contract not bother to investigate their protocols before awarding the contract?

MaizieD

Callistemon

Josianne one factor may be that people who took PCR tests were told by the Wolverhampton laboratory, where south-west testing was done, that they were negative and consequently went out into the community, to work and school and thus spread the virus.

That is a big scandal, involving some 40,000plus results.

As a matter of interest, the lab's contract was one of those 'crony contracts'. It had only been set up 4 months before the contract was given, apparently without any due diligence.

Just in case anyone's interested:

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1448933287796281365

Yes, which brings us back to growstuff's comment I think it does indicate that it's not all the fault of the public's non-compliance with guidelines.

That testing company was a fiasco. If the government can pay so little attention to its efficacy and performance then we can see how some might distrust their promotion of the vaccine, though I'm not going there.

Deepti Gurdasani
@dgurdasani1
· Oct 15
How long back does this issue go? Was it only picked up because of discordant LFDs? How do we estimate the 43,000? Could numbers be higher, but we don't have LFDs for comparison for many people, and over other time periods? We need urgent transparency on this.

As a matter of interest, the lab's contract was one of those 'crony contracts'. It had only been set up 4 months before the contract was given, apparently without any due diligence.

I suspected it might be a "crony contract"
No proper controls were set in place.

Thinking about 20-29 year olds. Maybe it’s because their immune system is still working pretty well at that age (without googling am I thinking of the hypothalamus gland?). It starts to drop of after that, doesn’t it, unless you keep yourself hyper fit. Many will have continued to mix with friends and have been exposed to small amounts of the virus over a period of time but won’t be exposed on a daily basis in the way that schoolchildren are. This is a baffling, complicated virus. I remember doctors at the beginning saying they’d never come across anything like it and that hasn’t changed. We’re all playing Russian roulette with our lives while this virus is still with us.

Callistemon

Josianne one factor may be that people who took PCR tests were told by the Wolverhampton laboratory, where south-west testing was done, that they were negative and consequently went out into the community, to work and school and thus spread the virus.

That is a big scandal, involving some 40,000plus results.

As a matter of interest, the lab's contract was one of those 'crony contracts'. It had only been set up 4 months before the contract was given, apparently without any due diligence.

Just in case anyone's interested:

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1448933287796281365

Callistemon

^You're right. I forgot about them.^
This family is very aware of it, growstuff!

Sorry to hear that.

sazz1

Firstly I am double vaccinated so not a conspiracy theorist. I have serious doubts about the rising infection figures. With numbers of infections very high in this area despite a very high uptake ie over 80% of double vaccinated I dont think the vaccine is protecting anyone from infection. It's protecting people from serious illness or death I agree with that.
So why are we having vaccine passports if it doesn't stop infection? I think rates of infections are rising due to people thinking they can't catch Covid as they are fully vaccinated.
There should have been a dramatic fall in infection rates here with 80%+ vaccinated but my area has one of the highest rates in the UK. People are being lulled into a false sense of security IMO

sazz The high case numbers are due to the number of under 19s who are infected. Most of them haven't even been offered a vaccine.

On the contrary, the relatively low numbers of cases in the older age groups, where vaccine take up has been high, indicate that vaccines do work.

I agree that people are being lulled into a false sense of security, which is why I personally think mask wearing should be mandatory and people should avoid enclosed spaces where possible and keep their distance.

You're right. I forgot about them.
This family is very aware of it, growstuff!

Josianne one factor may be that people who took PCR tests were told by the Wolverhampton laboratory, where south-west testing was done, that they were negative and consequently went out into the community, to work and school and thus spread the virus.

Callistemon

growstuff

Incidentally, case numbers are underreported. That's because people who have Covid more than once aren't included, nor are those who are asymptomatic (usually because they don't know they're infected) and those who only have mild symptoms, recover quickly and don't bother reporting.

And just to add that some who are tested were told they were negative when in fact they may have been positive.

Having been relieved to find they did not have Covid, just a sniffles, they then went about their daily business including going into school where they could pass it on to other unvaccinated pupils.

You're right. I forgot about them.

MaggsMcG

I'm double vaccinated, overweight and 69. I caught Covid-19 on 1st October and tested positive on LFT and PCR. I had practically no symptoms whatsoever. A slight cough and felt like I was getting a mild cold. I kept waiting for the more serious symptoms that never came. It seems this virus effects people differently regardless of any comorbidities or vulnerabilities. We all need to do what we feel is necessary to protect ourselves.

It could be that the vaccine did its job and protected you or that you didn't pick up a high viral load. Who knows?

I can't explain it either Josianne. Public health officials with knowledge of local areas might have some idea. It would be good to know because people would have a better idea about transmission and how to avoid it. I think it does indicate that it's not all the fault of the public's non-compliance with guidelines.

I really don't get what is going on in different age groups (40-49s?) and in different areas of the country.
We try to keep abreast of it all as we have (educational) work interests in both London and the South West. It now seems like the London rates are lower than our very compliant corner of Devon where 79% have been double vaccinated. Added to that we certainly don't have the number of ethnic minorities Anniel mentioned. The advanced age most people here also means that not that many are out in bars, theatres, concerts like in the capital, yet the infection rates here are keep rising.
In some respects we have noticed that London is maybe more aware because they had it so bad, whereas we are a bit naive having got off lightly in 2020.
I have no answers and no evidence to work on which isn't good, because I am now considering taking GC up to London for Christmas events rather than staying closer to home. This ironically is the reverse of many people flocking to the South West from the cities this summer.

I'm double vaccinated, overweight and 69. I caught Covid-19 on 1st October and tested positive on LFT and PCR. I had practically no symptoms whatsoever. A slight cough and felt like I was getting a mild cold. I kept waiting for the more serious symptoms that never came. It seems this virus effects people differently regardless of any comorbidities or vulnerabilities. We all need to do what we feel is necessary to protect ourselves.

So why are we having vaccine passports if it doesn't stop infection?

Is it that if you are double vaccinated and catch covid you are likely to have a milder version with a lower viral load and so less likely to pass it to anyone else?

My 'co-gran', double vaccinated, tested positive for covid this weekend. Immediate family, including my GS, who have been in contact with her have all tested negative, twice (though, admittedly, only on an LFT). She's showing no symptoms at all.

growstuff

Incidentally, case numbers are underreported. That's because people who have Covid more than once aren't included, nor are those who are asymptomatic (usually because they don't know they're infected) and those who only have mild symptoms, recover quickly and don't bother reporting.

And just to add that some who are tested were told they were negative when in fact they may have been positive.

Having been relieved to find they did not have Covid, just a sniffles, they then went about their daily business including going into school where they could pass it on to other unvaccinated pupils.

Let unvaccinated choose the vaccine they want out of the three available. I guarantee more would then get vaccinated. In fact, you can choose now by going to a walk in centre. Many people probably don't realise this. (And while we're at it, allow single vaccinated people to choose a different second one if they prefer. This is better than not getting a second one at all.)

Firstly I am double vaccinated so not a conspiracy theorist. I have serious doubts about the rising infection figures. With numbers of infections very high in this area despite a very high uptake ie over 80% of double vaccinated I dont think the vaccine is protecting anyone from infection. It's protecting people from serious illness or death I agree with that.
So why are we having vaccine passports if it doesn't stop infection? I think rates of infections are rising due to people thinking they can't catch Covid as they are fully vaccinated.
There should have been a dramatic fall in infection rates here with 80%+ vaccinated but my area has one of the highest rates in the UK. People are being lulled into a false sense of security IMO