Are you still wearing a face mask?

Alegria I agree. You're right. 180 was yesterday.

The fact remains that the trend is upwards and is worrying. Something needs to be done about it.

MayBee70

Well, I’m still annoyed that you find my comment that things are out of control is wrong. Can you tell me when your facts and figures will actually reach the same conclusion. Or how many people have to die before you do so? Sometimes it’s more about gut feelings and human lives than statistics. imo

It's also about seeing the bigger picture - the wood, not just the trees - rather than examining every leaf.

Urmstongran

I for one admire your attention to detail Alegrias. Always have actually. Accurate = trustworthy.

Me too.

I don’t know whether things are out of control or not, but I do feel that the government are not taking control. Is that the same thing? I’m not sure. Anyway I feel that the government should start either daily or at least weekly briefings again. They should make it mandatory to wear masks in public places. They should recommend WFH wherever possible. They need to get the booster program running more efficiently and they need to get the youngsters aged 12-15 vaccinated quickly. They need a concerted effort via advertising to get those who are not yet vaccinated to get a vaccination. Finally they should introduce a vaccine passport for entry into certain venues. I don’t suppose they’re interested in what I think though.

Just a point made by my friend who works in Tesco's - we've all heard about medical staff who wear masks during a 12-hour shift, and there are those on this thread who say that is because they are dealing with patients in a clinical setting. My friend pointed out that she has to wear one for her 9-hour shift and as she is coping with that in spite of a certain amount of discomfort, she gets very annoyed with people who come into the shop and refuse to put on a mask. In fact the worst offenders just now seem to be English workers at a local building site who think that because they come from England they don't need to follow Scottish rules!

Same problem as the one you have, JulieMM

MayBee70
As this virus is going to be with us for, I don’t know how long?
when will the figures be acceptable before you stop using alarmist language?
I know that sounds very harsh but there has to come a time when people stop hanging on every announcement of numbers.

We are so ill-prepared. People are talking about masks when we should have carried on with them until we knew everything was under control. But not this government - oh no. They are a bunch of incompetent schoolboys. I have put a post on separately that records what the last SAGE meeting (14 October 2021). Listed as the Impact of potential Plan B mitigations considering the impact of the Delta variant and the behavioural response to reimposition of measures they noted that:

Reintroduction of working from home guidance is likely to have the greatest individual impact on transmission out of the proposed measures. Impact would be dependent on effectiveness of communication and guidance, employer response, and the proportion of workers able to work from home who were not already doing so at the time of implementation. It was noted that “presenteeism” may become an increasing reason for spread in the workplace and that it will be important to communicate effectively to avoid this.

We should be planning for this. Better that it is planned and not used than we go into the next bungled and life costing mess.

SAGE also commented on the fact that There has been a decrease in self-reported precautionary behaviours such as wearing a face covering. Effective reintroduction of measures would require clear and positive public communications (providing sufficient time for implementation), setting out expected impacts as well as scope, exemptions and approach to enforcement.

Unfortunately, clear and positive public communications are not this governments forte so will not happen. It is the lack of ability to run things efficiently that will lead to the "harsh" result that we wait longer. We do not have a government of gods who can change it just by wishing, as some seem to believe. It was never going to be quick. Why can't people accept that it will run it course but we can make it easier for all by not being selfish and thinking of others? So much for the "be nice to one another" we were hearing about last week.

Pippa I expect you know about the concept of delayed gratification. Usually, it only affects individuals, but we're seeing it play out at a national level. It's really not pleasant.

MerylStreep

MayBee70
As this virus is going to be with us for, I don’t know how long?
when will the figures be acceptable before you stop using alarmist language?
I know that sounds very harsh but there has to come a time when people stop hanging on every announcement of numbers.

Perhaps there needs to be a time when some people take their heads from out of the sand….

MerylStreep

MayBee70
As this virus is going to be with us for, I don’t know how long?
when will the figures be acceptable before you stop using alarmist language?
I know that sounds very harsh but there has to come a time when people stop hanging on every announcement of numbers.

Maybe some people should have even a vague idea about numbers and facts.

I've only just started reading this post and I'm amazed there are 16 pages already; it's obviously a hot topic. I haven't the time to read through everything but I feel I need to comment on a couple of TwoWolves' posts.

I do wish posters would fact-check before posting; and not make pseudo-scientific statements; and cite the source of their statements. Personal belief has nothing to do with scientific evidence.

Norway did introduce mandatory wearing of face masks:

"Norwegian health officials on Friday recommended people wear face masks while using public transportation in and around the capital, Oslo, amid a rise in COVID-19 cases, its first recommendation for face coverings since the pandemic
began" Source: VOA News, 14 August 2020.

NB: "The current population of Norway is 5,476,480 as of Friday, October 22, 2021, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data"

The current population of the United Kingdom is 68,351,807 as of Saturday, October 23, 2021, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data

I think there's a correlation between population size and cases of Covid.

TwoWolves says: "But have any rigorous, controlled experiments been carried out by either side? No, of course they haven't - it would be unethical and dangerous to do so."

There have been numerous studies, over decades, into the dispersal of aerosol particles when people sneeze or cough. Photos and diagrams can be found via any search engine.
As Coronavirus is a respiratory disease there is no need for further experimentation.

I suggest that reliable evidence is not hard to come by as long as one accesses reputable sources; however, one needs to know how to ascertain these sources and not rely on social media.

To answer the OP's original post: yes, I do wear a mask. I feel we have a collective responsibility to do whatever we can to keep each other safe.

Here's one such article:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8236413/

A relative wrote one of the sources to the article about airborne transmission. It's just under 30 years since he retired, so the mechanics of airborne transmission and significance in viral infection has been understood for at least that length of time.

I’ve just been watching a dog show in Belfast. Some people are wearing masks properly. Some not at all. Some are under noses. Others hanging round people’s necks. Is it any wonder that people think they don’t work when their interpretation of wearing one varies so much!

So Plan B to bring in tougher Covid measures..
Like you MayBee70, I despair at people wearing masks on their chin/sitting on neck would like to say something but am not good at confrontation and possibly would get assaulted..

Not wearing a mask in the conditions suggested - or not wearing them correctly - is simply selfish.

We are not being asked to do this for our own sake but the sake of others.

We are also not asked to decided if this will work or not. The scientists believe it will be of some help. Most of us are not scientists.

Those shouting the odds need to stop behaving like small children having a tantrum. Our wishes simply do not come first in this instance. This is about thinking of others.

Wearing a mask, except in exceptional circumstances, does not harm you. Not wearing it may harm others. The whole population needs to behave responsibly.

Responsibility also includes Conservative MPs when stuffed into the chamber of the House of Commons.

Those without masks worn to help protect others need to look hard at just how much harm they are prepared to do to others.

Bea65

So Plan B to bring in tougher Covid measures..
Like you MayBee70, I despair at people wearing masks on their chin/sitting on neck would like to say something but am not good at confrontation and possibly would get assaulted..

Well, yes Bea65. However, what SAGE are saying is that we need to be carrying out plan A - which is a mish-mash of "you can if you want to" at the moment. At the same time we need to be planning for PlanB - not waiting for the inevitable on/off Christmas as we did last year.

This government will never succeed until they learn we need to be ahead of the curve and planning for what "may" happen. At the moment they are just responding to what does happen. That means more deaths and more disruption than was ever necessary.

That’s how the government are PippaZ, reactive, not proactive, excusable to a degree during the earlier months of Covid, inexcusable now.

Shocked lately about the number of people on public transport who get on brazenly without a mask despite the requirement notice on the window. A few weeks ago I was seeing people get on wearing one and then removing them when seated. The drivers have not said anything. Wearing a mask is such an obvious aid to preventing illness and such an easy thing to do that I tend to correlate its use with plain common sense. As for this nonsense about it stopping us getting our lives back surely wearing one is the pathway to doing exactly that.

Thanks for the link growstuff; very interesting.

You may like to read this:

eac2021.co.uk/conftool-agenda/www.conftool.com/eac2021/index.php/EAC2021_AC_P3-4_379_Payne.pdf@page=downloadPaper&ismobile=false&filename=EAC2021_AC_P3-4_379_Payne.pdf&form_id=379

Well if we don’t all go back to wearing masks soon we may have to go without Christmas again.

We certainly won't be going without Christmas regardless will carry on as planned and have got a feeling we wouldn't be the only ones

TwoWolves

Shelflife - the number of facemask lovers who have gone on to catch covid is remarkable. There are even some Gransnetters who have said it happened to them. I think Covid laughs in the face of facemasks.

As for being foolish, I've had two vaccinations and will go for a booster. And would stay indoors if I had symptoms - that's as far as I'm prepared to go to protect myself or others because facemasks DO NOT WORK.

That's your opinion ofcourse! I presume you mean the cloth ones? Not the ones that they use in hospitals and Drs.

Yes I still wear mine and like those I know will continue too. For me it reminds people we are still in the pandemic and to keep their distance.

Yes I know there are varying views in the science community to their effectiveness. Any % is better than none to me

What annoys me is that mask wearing, even if it protects the wearer is still more about protecting other people. And yet so many people don’t give a flying flamingo about others. All this talk in this country about Dunkirk spirit and pulling together and yet, when it comes to something as simple as wearing a mask people just look for excuses not to do so. Can it really be so awful to carry on wearing a mask for the next few months? You know, by doing so you might actually have saved someone’s life without even knowing you’ve done so. All this ‘well, the government says I don’t need to wear one’, ‘I’ve never bothered with a mask and haven’t caught covid tee her’ just does my head in.

Christmas approaches, going without Christmas it seems.

Norah

Christmas approaches, going without Christmas it seems.

Covid isn't just for Christmas!

If everybody acts sensibly, knowing how Covid is transmitted, case incidence rates will continue to go down. Death rates seem to have increased, which is probably a result of the past case rates.

There's a downward trend across England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We just need to keep our heads and run a mile if there are people without masks in enclosed spaces. If people want large family gatherings at Christmas, they need to think about self-isolating for a few days and testing before meeting. It won't stop all infection, but it will reduce risk.