Christmas party at Downing Street last year

Nice idea but for that to happen you have to have a party in opposition that appeals to the electorate you also have to believe the opposition party can do better

I can see why you might think that Smileless2012 but all my post did was sum up exactly what GSM had just told us. If the reflection in the mirror is unpleasant it is not the mirror's fault.

You also have to believe the opposition party can do better.

I agree rosie1959. Or at least that they can't do worse than those in power. There has to be a tipping point on that surely.

Thirty years ago I moved from Scotland to England for a few years, at that time Scotland was overwhelmingly Labour. It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent; obviously he didn't. I remember speaking to a lady who worked on the factory floor of the place I worked, who told me she was going to vote Tory. I asked her why, and she said she knew which side her bread was buttered; she'd bought her house etc and it didn't matter to her about the rest of the country, she and her family were doing OK.

That has stuck with me because it was completely at odds with everything I had heard in Scotland, where even the Tories understood that voting was about what was best for society, not what was best for you and your nearest and dearest; it stuck with me especially how working people can be influenced to think that the Tory party is the party of the working man when they're actually the party of the "I'm all right Jack" tendency.

Vote for who you like, that's what democracy is all about. But don't try to pretend that the Tories are the party of the working class. This working class girl, and her generations of working class ancestors, know a lot better.

Probably Labour do get into power every so often but suspect they need a change of leader first
But as we have a bit of a wait before the next election anything can happen

Welcome back under your new name Coastpath, I had wondered where you were.

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Very true Calistemon and we need to focus on the here and now.

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t bothered to watch it because I’m just not interested. It’s not something that would change the way I vote.

It is amazing how someone keeps posting, again and again- about something they have no interest in, at all. And can't be bothered to watch or read, any facts.

No wonder we are in this mess !

Me, me, me, me and s*d the rest. Nice.

Coastpath It’s an old saying, and just means a safe seat for whatever Party.....it’s used as ‘if you put a red rosette on a pig Labour voters would vote for it’ as well.?

It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent

Kinnock - ah yes.

This constituency has been Tory for quite some time although we used to have Labour MP. However, Labour voters whom I know locally said they would rather vote abstain, or vote Tory rather than vote for Kinnock even though he is Welsh.
It seemed odd to me but I have wondered since just how altruism compares with the "I'm all right Jack" tendencies displayed by Kinnock later. Now Baron Kinnock, of course.

Oh, come back Mrs Merton.

"So what first attracted you to the altruistic multi-millionaire Labour Minister .......... ?"
Insert name as appropriate.

Whitewavemark2

?

Cressida Dick must surely have better things to do ( like knife crime in London) than investigate a party that might have taken place in Downing St, a year ago.

Absolutely pathetic of Barry Gardiner to write asking her to investigate something like this.

Kinnock whether you like it or not paved the way for a labour victory. I am hoping and praying that Starmer can achieve what kinnock did.

Nightsky I can just imagine what Cressida Dick said on reading Gardiners missive ?

lemongrove

As I said GSM ....it’s just gleeful political point scoring.

Political point scoring is also very much part of the Tory MO - and not specific to this current administration, either. Have you forgotten Cameron and Osborne continually pointing out Labour's failings?

Don't you think that our system of adversarial government - as opposed to consensus government - makes political point scoring inevitable?

The Opposition's job is to challenge the government of the day and hold them to account. If the boot were on the other foot, that is exactly what the Tories would do.

Interestingly, when Starmer is discussing issues and being methodical in his 'forensic' lawyer-type mode, he's considered 'boring', yet when he becomes more dynamic and challenges the government - he's scoring political points.

I think it's hypocritical to accuse one side of doing exactly what the other side do. It's Politics - Starmer and Johnson are 'in Politics'. And they score points against each other - because the British people don't appear to want any other form of government, certainly not one run on consensual lines.

I think posters who can’t bring themselves to watch reports which put forward a view from a reputable source based on the available information because they have pre-decided that it will be biased blow any credibility they may have previously had.
The only way to develop a balanced view is to accept that your view isn’t the only one, and be prepared to change your opinions based on new knowledge that challenges your beliefs. There’s no point arguing with blind prejudice.
In any case as has been said many times this thread is not about Labour, it about whether it’s acceptable for the Covid rules set by the government to be broken by the government.

Alegrias1

Thirty years ago I moved from Scotland to England for a few years, at that time Scotland was overwhelmingly Labour. It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent; obviously he didn't. I remember speaking to a lady who worked on the factory floor of the place I worked, who told me she was going to vote Tory. I asked her why, and she said she knew which side her bread was buttered; she'd bought her house etc and it didn't matter to her about the rest of the country, she and her family were doing OK.

That has stuck with me because it was completely at odds with everything I had heard in Scotland, where even the Tories understood that voting was about what was best for society, not what was best for you and your nearest and dearest; it stuck with me especially how working people can be influenced to think that the Tory party is the party of the working man when they're actually the party of the "I'm all right Jack" tendency.

Vote for who you like, that's what democracy is all about. But don't try to pretend that the Tories are the party of the working class. This working class girl, and her generations of working class ancestors, know a lot better.

30 years is a very long time to be stuck in the past. Most people move on in life, I certainly have.

lemongrove

Nightsky I can just imagine what Cressida Dick said on reading Gardiners missive ?

Unprintable.

lemongrove

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Nah, not really, I do wonder about the 30 something percent who voted for Brexit.

But its my anecdote and its about how my political ideas evolved. I still see it in people who think that as long as they've got their comforts, devil take the rest.

And it's also quite interesting in the light of the fact that the so-called party of the working man haven't been able to win a majority in my country for nearly 70 years.

Calistemon

^Ironically I’ve just been hauled over the coals for not realizing a thread about gallstones was an older one^
Kamiso
Gallstones are still relevant and bothering people today!!
Why were you in trouble?

Because I inadvertently picked up an old thread!

I searched gall stones then asked a few questions. My hospital doesn’t do the surgery to remove the stones and want to remove the gall bladder.

The implied threat is that they can do the surgery early in the new year but if I enquire about other methods I may be put to the back of the queue.

The first responses were telling me off for answering an old thread!

lemongrove

Coastpath It’s an old saying, and just means a safe seat for whatever Party.....it’s used as ‘if you put a red rosette on a pig Labour voters would vote for it’ as well.?

I do admire our fortitude Lemongrove! Attacked from all sides and you keep coming back. So many assumptions made about you no matter how often you advise to the contrary.

Alegrias1

lemongrove

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Nah, not really, I do wonder about the 30 something percent who voted for Brexit.

But its my anecdote and its about how my political ideas evolved. I still see it in people who think that as long as they've got their comforts, devil take the rest.

And it's also quite interesting in the light of the fact that the so-called party of the working man haven't been able to win a majority in my country for nearly 70 years.

Imagine basing your political views on the words of one person that you obviously felt was significantly inferior to you!

Dear god in heaven....

OK, seeing as I'm here and in the mood...

It was an introduction for me to the way some Tory voters think. Which is clearly still in action today, as we have seen from specific comments on this thread that essentially say they don't want to hear about the wrongdoing of the Tory party because the Tory party has been good to them so that's the end of it.

As for thinking they were inferior to me? Why would you think that? Because I mentioned she was on the factory floor, as a means of helping people understand that she was one of the "working class"? Like me? Me who was working in the same factory????

lemongrove

Welcome back under your new name Coastpath, I had wondered where you were.

Well you see, I thought about it Lemongrove and decided not to let myself be bullied into submission.