Politics of fear and its side effects

I saw exactly the point that you were making, Peasblossom, and I think it's a very good point.

I agree, Peasblossom

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister.
We lost someone too, not from Covid but as consequence of the situation brought about by Covid.

Calistemon

Riverwalk

Yes very distressing for your husband if he thought he'd triggered her actions.

For future, to reduce potential stress for him could he wear a visor if it's medically possible.

I didn't go to the hairdressers for over a year because they were wearing visors but tipping them back to be able to see according to a friend!
They weren't wearing masks last time either so I cancelled my appointment this week.

I'm not terrified, just exercising caution.

Yup! This is why I now have long hair.....even though it’s a bugger to condition and comb through.?

DH said the last time at the barbers one member of staff wasn’t wearing a mask at all.

Urmstongran, I can't see that the death rate will fall just yet. In fact, I'd think the opposite far more likely

Most people have socialised/mixed/had much more contact over Christmas, so I'd expect the death rate to rise dramatically by mid to late January.

That's assuming a delay from infection to death of four weeks - but of course, it does vary. Time from infection to (any) symptoms can be from two to fourteen days, too, averaging maybe six, so mid January could be the peak time for deaths.:

'Time between symptom onset and death from COVID-19 ranges from 2 to 8 weeks, with reported median times of 16 or 19 days'.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveytechnicalarticle/wavesandlagsofcovid19inenglandjune2021

It's assumed by many, including the OP, that caution is due to a fear of Covid. That may be true for some, but in my case it's a very strong sense of responsibility for others that drives caution.

I know I'd just never forgive myself if I infected somebody else and they died. I wouldn't be able to view it as 'accidental'. It would be reckless.

We're advised to test one hour before contact. Omicron can multiply so rapidly that we can be infectious very soon after a negative test. Tests are only 80 - 90% accurate anyway.

I don't want the vulnerable to shut themselves away for years and become mentally ill - just so that I can continue a 'normal' life. I'm not that selfish. I'm not the Covid equivalent of a drunk driver. I'm much better than that.

Peaseblossom and others. You all seem to forget is that there was a reason DH cannot wear a mask. He is in a fragile state, mentally and physically, following major heart surgery, followed by a serious infection that was antibiotic resistant and required three operations to physically scrape the infection out of his body.

If this lady was freaked out by seeing him at some distance from her. How do you think it was for him, struggling for breath and having a woman shrieking and running away when he joined the queue? The stress of the event affected his breathing and left him struggling. It drew peoples attention to him in a most unpleasant way and it is remarkable that he did not also make a run for it, but he wanted to have his third vaccination so he gritted his teeth and stayed there.

It is so easy to imagine all sorts of scenarios that make this unknown woman the victim. Why? Wasn't my DH just as much the victim and just as much likely to be badly affected mentally as she was?

Could I suggest that there are elements of old fashioned sexism here. The woman, it is assumed, is always the victim, if the 'aggressor' ia a man. If DH was not exactly an aggressor, he is expected to cope with this situation while the woman who caused it is understandably collapsing unable to cope with the deep stress she has been caused. Hmm

Agreed M0nica, it must have been very stressful for your husband.
I was I the post office, I was standing in the queue, when a customer at the counter, was making very angry remarks about people in the shop who were not wearing masks, a woman turned to me and said she should not be shouting that as the person/persons maybe exempt, I just replied I agreed with her.
So much hysteria around.

So, are you worried about the mental health of the woman who ran off screaming or worried about how upset your husband was? Or both? Do you think that people shouldn’t be expected to wear masks outside because it discriminates against people who can’t wear masks?

She didn’t feel safe. She said she was afraid, She left.
That was it,

She didn’t go near him. She didn’t accuse him of anything. She didn’t speak to him or about him. She didn’t actually have anything to do with him.

She just didn’t stay where she didn’t want to be.

She’s not the only one who could be accused of over reacting.

Surely, if you can wear a mask indoors - you can also wear one outside? I know it's not necessary or compulsory, but I would always use one outside a doctors, vaccination centre or hospital.

And it may not have been anything to do with him. It might just have been that being in a line of people triggered her anxiety.

No, nothing at all to do with him.

I left the cinema a few weeks ago because very few people were wearing masks.

It wasn’t about any individual.

Galaxy, very true - and her anxiety may have nothing to do with alleged 'fear tactics'.

I’m totally at a loss to understand how being in a queue where someone becomes anxious and leaves is then interpreted as a distressing personal attack, when he’s not even near them and has no contact with them whatsoever.

I left waterstones the other day because everyone was getting on my nerves l

I used to get anxiety attacks when in a queue: annoyingly they usually happened when it was almost my turn. It was the feeling of being trapped in some way. Used to happen in the theatre and cinema, too and I always had to have a seat at the end of a row.

Peasblossom

No, nothing at all to do with him.

I left the cinema a few weeks ago because very few people were wearing masks.

It wasn’t about any individual.

I've done that exact thing myself PB.

Your husband wasn't at fault you don't have to wear a mask outside, perhaps inside the surgery your husband might have got some dirty looks where mask wearing is compulsory, I don't know what the answer is other that holding up a sign that you are exempt. I've seen articles in the news about fights breaking out because of this. Anyway silly woman missing out on her jab but perhaps she has other issues.

I have to say, I really do struggle with the ‘mask exemption’ folk. As a retired medic, there really are very few conditions that would genuinely mean someone would be unable to wear a mask. As others have said, a visor, even a scarf up high would at least show some effort to try and make others feel comfortable. This lady, for whatever reason may actually be very susceptible to Covid. Perhaps she has not mounted a sufficient immune response? Perhaps she has many conditions that put at her at risk. Perhaps she is hugely immuno suppressed on her cancer treatment?Perhaps she has lost several members of her family to Covid? Rather than blame her, and assume she has mental health issues (maybe, but maybe not and even if she does, let’s not judge and stigmatise) let’s try and see the bigger picture. We are still, despite what the government say, still
In the middle of a global pandemic, which has killed many people. Whatever the government say, the evidence is clear that masks play a role in reducing transmission. What ever the government say, omicron is a new variant which we do not fully understand. The reason for no restrictions to this point is very obviously a political ploy and is not in keeping with the rest of the world and has been against a lot of the medical advice. SAGE, Whitty, JVT, the entire public health department etc are experts in this field. There will be a lot of people are feeling anxious and scared . As I said, we are still very much in the midst of a global
Pandemic which has killed thousands, with huge vaccine inequity and therefore a lot of potential for more strains to develop. I think they have a right to be anxious and to expect others to at least try and show some consideration and wear a bloody mask!

Riverside visors are worse than useless, they give no protection against COVID because the virus floats in the air and will just float behind the visor and offer no protection to others as the virus will just float out round the open sides. This is why it is made clear that a mask must be a close fit to the face, so that any breath, in or out, is filtered through the material it is made of

Monica the reason I suggested a visor, which I know are not very effective, was that it might save him further distress if he finds himself in a similar situation. The woman concerned, for whatever reason, didn't take into account that face coverings are not necessary outdoors and your husband was no threat to her.

We can't worry too much about what other people think and what their actions will be but it could prevent further distress to your husband, if he's going to worry about a repeat performance elsewhere.

I still don’t see why this means he can’t wear a mask. The evidence shows it has no effect on oxygen saturations so unless he is on portable oxygen and cannot get the mask to fit over his oxygen mask he can in fact still wear a mask.

MayBee70

I used to get anxiety attacks when in a queue: annoyingly they usually happened when it was almost my turn. It was the feeling of being trapped in some way. Used to happen in the theatre and cinema, too and I always had to have a seat at the end of a row.

I suffered those attacks too, and for the same reason. I even used to get them sometimes simply by going into a shop. I was agoraphobic also at the time, so even getting to the shop was often a real challenge.

I lived alone with my small son at the time and became so ill that in the end, I couldn't even set foot outside the front door - I even fainted on one occasion when I attempted to do that.

Back in those days, mental health services were more readily available and my GP arranged for a Psychiatrist to evaluate me at home (I doubt that ever happens now). I had absolutely no idea what was wrong with me and thought I was suffering some kind of 'madness'. He - the psychiatrist - told me I was suffering from depression and that the attacks were a result of that, and it all gradually made sense. Unfortunately, he chose to prescribe some very dangerous anti-depressants (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) which had the potential to cause fatal reactions if consumed with certain types of food - but they were effective, very, and within a couple of weeks I was back to normal and able to slowly wean off the medication.

I'd completely forgotten this episode in my life until I read your post as I never suffered from it again. But remembering, I wouldn't wish this type of anxiety on anyone - it was absolutely crippling - and I really think that you have to experience it to understand how awful it is.

Goodness only knows how people cope now with mental health services stretched beyond the limit. I understand that suicide, especially amongst young men, has been steadily rising over the years, there just isn't anyone to help those who are affected.

I was lucky, and I know it. I sympathise with the woman in the queue mentioned by MOnica, and her husband. who was, quite naturally, distressed by what he witnessed.

As Dr Adrian James, president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, said earlier this year, “The extent of the mental health crisis is terrifying, but it will likely get a lot worse before it gets better."

Monica, Your husband did nothing wrong. He has had the most awful experiences in Lockdown. Unfortunately there are people out there that are so wrapped up in it all or struggling mentally, they jump to conclusions, it is of no help to your husband I know, but it must not bring him down, he has to concentrate on getting strong again.

LadyWee He doesn't have a full set of lungs, one of them is only partially useable, and he has difficulty breathing a full lungful and a bit without a mask, even when just walking. Masks, to be effective, need to fit closely to the face. Of course it restricts his breathing, masks, restrict anyone's breathing, I am always conscious of it when wearing a mask - and I have no respiratory problems.

He has tried very hard to wear a mask, but can just about manage it for a short time if sitting. Wearing one in the surgery was for a couple of minutes, if that. The vaccination area was a room with direct access to the outside and each person only went in once the nurse was ready to jab, so he was inside, pulled his sleeve up, was vaccinated and was straight out, if they were as quick and as efficient as the centre where I had my third jab, he would have been in and out in about a minute. There was no sitting provision for 15 minutes after the jab.

Peasblossom Someone seeing someone at a distance of 15 feet and running away shouting 'I am going to get COVID, I am going to get COVID' is not being in a queue where someone becomes anxious and leaves

I think if someone was as anxious as this lady, then she would perhaps have been wiser to have someone with her. In her circumstances I would certainly not have wanted to be outside without someone with me. The chances of meeting someone unmasked, or, worse still having someone unmasked breaching the social distance rules is so high, it would be a risk I wouldn't want to take.

When DH first came out of hospital, I went everywhere with him, because he got easily distressed if things didn't go as intended. Now he is more robust and he was able to deal with this incident, although it still caused him internal turmoil.

Surely the answer is to have signs everywhere saying that masks are obligatory and then separate, pre-arranged access arrangements for people who cannot wear masks for medical reasons.
Seems fairly obvious to me.