Perhaps our situation with covid is looking up

Witzend

Sorry, Alegrias1, but I don’t quite understand your reasoning.

If being vaccinated greatly reduces your chances of being seriously ill, or ill enough to need hospital treatment, that factor is surely going to show in the relative numbers of vaxxed/unvaxxed in hospital?

And out of interest, who says that people won’t understand the figures?

The only people I know locally who’ve been seriously ill with COVID since vaccination has been available, are 3 x 60 something male siblings, who ended up in hospital for 2-3 weeks each. All were completely unvaccinated because they ‘weren’t sure’.
Having all come out of hospital extremely weak, they are certainly ‘sure’ now.

Suppose that we were all vaxxed, or 99% of us. In that case there would still be people getting ill from Covid and so the vast majority of people in hospital would be vaxxed.

The people who end up in hospital because of Covid may have all kinds of underlying conditions, or none at all. At the moment a large proportion of the people who are boosted will be older, or will be vulnerable. So if we compare with people who are younger, with fewer co-morbidities, their chances of going to hospital could well be higher than the unvaccinated.

So in summary, the more people who are vaccinated, relatively more people in hospital will be vaccinated than not.

Now when the BBC can't even effectively explain why the number of deaths in a day looks higher than it really is, what chance is there of them explaining why it is that most people in hospital will have been vaccinated? The anti-vaxxers would have a field day.

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That's the picture...

I may download that for future use...

It is perhaps that very fear which has lead some to be less than gleeful during covid times that has actually lead others to be more outwardly cheerful and positive.

I am cheered by people who acknowledge the awfulness we are all going through and are cheerful regardless.

Complete cheerfulness because of ignoring facts irritates me no end.

I try to look for positives in most situations, especially since the emergence of Covid. To constantly dwell on negativity would be detrimental to my mental health and general well-being.

Alegrias1 I have agreed with your knowledgeable and educational posts regarding the pandemic since day one.

Thanks GG13. They are just my opinions, based on my analysis of the facts, and as we're so often told, everybody's entitled to their opinions on here

I’m don’t feel I’m artificially cheerful, but the proper facts and analysis helps me to cope and to be reasonably optimistic. At the same time I am afraid of catching the virus again because I don’t want to be that ill again. I realise that’s unlikely but I still feel the fear, and so I prefer to look for the positives where they can be found.
GrannyGravy, I also find the posts of Alegrias heartening as they are always based on facts and are not swayed by emotional over reactions.

Younger people haven't got the same immunity as older ones because those of us who are older have lived through and also gained a certain amount of immunity from virus's that have been around for many years.
Because of vaccination programmes against various diseases over the past years, children/ youths will have been immunised against what we know as " childhood illnesses " so therefore their own immune systems will be compromised in a way because their bodies haven't built their own immunity, it's been artificially induced.

Much as I'm for immunisation against illnesses/ diseases, the fact that this generation hasn't built up their own immunity renders them open to any alien virus that normally the body would fight against.

Those of us at certain ages will remember these childhood illnesses and mothers who would bung the children out to play with those who were covered in spots not that we noticed much as kids as we were too busy playing. Everything involved getting dirty outside, mud for pretend pies, our hands worked overtime, never washed while playing except when we came in for tea.

I had most of the childhood illnesses like everyone did, but inadvertently caught scarlet fever too and was whizzed off to an isolation hospital as was the child next door. No vaccinations against any of these illnesses then, until measles reared its ugly head and a vaccination programme helped to wipe it out and that's been on-going since as the virus/ bacteria which caused it mutated and created an unwanted illness in children of modern day age.

The reason now for compulsory vaccination in our time is because of the amount of travelling that we do now, by air particularly. Gone are the days when you were vaccinated if visiting certain countries, though it still should be necessary if there's a hint of a certain sickness---typhoid for instance where water isn't 100% which means that eating salads/ ices is dodgy. Climate change will alter water systems.

Whatever vaccination is on offer, or suggested if going abroad----take it ! I did, in the past and it paid off. I've lost count of the needles that I've had I can remember a typhoid/ yellow fever vaccine still being in my system 6 months on.

Well why are there only so many resources in the NHS? We’ve had a pandemic for 2 years and there’s still telling us the NHS isn’t up to it. I know its not possible to magic up doctors and nurses, but have we done anything to make the NHS more robust and capable of dealing with a new disease that’s never going away, can someone tell me? Or are we all expected to change our behaviour forever because politically the NHS isn’t being properly funded?

Every winter we had warnings about pressure on the NHS because of epidemics of flu, so this has only exacerbated a stressful situation caused by underfunding and lack of capacity in the NHS.

At some point it may be that Covid cases will be reduced to the levels of seasonal flu, the death rate will be down to that of annual flu so will we still be subject to restrictions, mask wearing? If not, will having both flu and Covid circulating in future mean unsustainable year-round pressure on the NHS unless the lack of funding is tackled as a matter of urgency?
Add to that the backlog of cases too.
It can't continue as it is. The Government needs to tackle this now.

No vaccinations against any of these illnesses then, until measles reared its ugly head and a vaccination programme helped to wipe it out and that's been on-going since as the virus/ bacteria which caused it mutated and created an unwanted illness in children of modern day age.

I remember my neighbour sending her children round to play with mine when mine had mumps.

However, I don't think measles was ever eradicated and it was the scare about the MMR vaccine which resulted in more cases of measles as so many parents were frightened to have their babies vaccinated.

We're still in for a bumpy ride in the New Year after people have mixed/ celebrated---even after vaccines, in fact after Christmas travels too as some vaccines begin to wane. I think I'll feel much safer having my second vax next month than having had it weeks ago.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick, Ellen or are you arguing that vaccinations against childhood diseases are a bad thing? The children that died, and are still dying of measles today in some countries, aren’t here to make their case for vaccination.

I also don’t understand what you mean about having typhoid and yellow fever vaccinations still in your body after six months. Isn’t that what they’re designed to do, in order to protect us?

EllanVannin I was very interested in your post about people’s previous vaccinations and immunity.
Since the beginning of the pandemic I have wondered whether the variety vaccinations that people have had for travelling would have any affect on the Covid virus.
Only a small observation, but people I know who have had a wide variety of other vaccines have either avoided Covid altogether or have had very mild infections.

EllanVannin I'm afraid you are wrong that older people have built up an immunity to Covid by being previously infected with other viruses.

Immunity and the different ways the body fights infection is very complicated, which is why people react in different ways. However, it just isn't possible to build up immunity to a novel virus without vaccination or infection with the same virus.

Research is suggesting that Omicron uses different pathways from other variants to infect vital organs, which is possibly why children are being more severely affected by Omicron than by Delta. It seems to attack different organs, which is why symptoms are being reported as different.

Calistemon

^No vaccinations against any of these illnesses then, until measles reared its ugly head and a vaccination programme helped to wipe it out and that's been on-going since as the virus/ bacteria which caused it mutated and created an unwanted illness in children of modern day age.^

I remember my neighbour sending her children round to play with mine when mine had mumps.

However, I don't think measles was ever eradicated and it was the scare about the MMR vaccine which resulted in more cases of measles as so many parents were frightened to have their babies vaccinated.

I'm a bit confused about the claims being made about childhood vaccinations. I had a fairly lengthy stay in hospital as a child, after developing encephalitis as a result of mumps. I don't remember that much about it, because I was very seriously ill, but I know my parents were worried and I was lucky to survive without brain damage.

I don't understand why any parent would want to put their child through that. My children were vaccinated for everything going as soon as they could.

PS. Measles hasn't been wiped out and there have been some severe outbreaks because children haven't been vaccinated.

Gwenisgreat1

I do feel if -everyone- and I mean -everyone- was vaccinated and wore masks this would die out quickly, but since some choose not to, the disease will produce another variant, milder than the last. then another milder than the previous and so on until it's just a mild inconveniemce. it could take another year or two for this to happen. That's my feelings on the matter.

Unfortunately, mutations don't work like that. Thankfully, it does appear that Omicron is causing fewer deaths, although it doesn't mean that it's not causing problems with staff absences, etc.

Mutations are happening all the time. Many of them aren't viable and just disappear. It's very likely that a new one will appear which is more transmissible than Omicron. It would be great if it causes milder symptoms than previous variants, but unfortunately there is no guarantee of that. It's just as likely that a new variant could cause more severe symptoms.

Any immunity we have from being exposed to viruses in the past is negated by the fact that out thymus(sp) gland shrinks as we get older and it’s the gland that protects us. It’s why there were so many deaths from covid amongst older people. I only know this because I read an article about it before the pandemic and it said that that the only way to have a thymus gland as effective as a young person was if you did a lot of sport, the best being cycling. It stuck in my mind because my ex is a keen cyclist and cycled from John’o’Groats to Lands end when he was 70 and I thought to myself ‘well, he’s ok then!’ As for measles the vaccine is only effective if a certain amount of children have it, something like 80% (?) so if many people don’t let their children have it it endangers everyone. This is all from memory and I’m happy to be corrected.

I agree and I am feeling optimistic now ?. Symptoms don't appear to be too bad now and I think it is losing it's hold. I don't believe everything on the news or what the politicians say, but I have my own thoughts.
Here's to a healthy and happy 2022.

I don't understand why any parent would want to put their child through that. My children were vaccinated for everything going as soon as they could.

The 'mumps party' was 40+ years ago, before there was a vaccination for mumps. Mothers of boys were keen for them to catch it at a young age as it was thought that if they caught mumps at teenage or older, it could cause sterility.

PS. Measles hasn't been wiped out and there have been some severe outbreaks because children haven't been vaccinated.

Exactly what I said, growstuff.
There was an outbreak of measles at a city near us pre-Covid and notices in hospital outpatient clinics about it, warning patients.

Are you getting confused with what I quoted from EllanV?

The ^^ don't seem to be working - the first paragraph is quoting your post, growstuff.

Things are looking up?? A hospital local to us is converting the staff canteen and the physio gym into bedded wards in addition to the Nightingale 'Tent' on the car park. Unfortunately , they don't have enough staff in normal times so just hope none of you are admitted to this hospital.

I'll post it again to make it clearer!

growstuff posted: I don't understand why any parent would want to put their child through that. My children were vaccinated for everything going as soon as they could.

The 'mumps party' was 40+ years ago, before there was a vaccination for mumps. Mothers of boys were keen for them to catch it at a young age as it was thought that if they caught mumps at teenage or older, it could cause sterility.

growstuff: PS. Measles hasn't been wiped out and there have been some severe outbreaks because children haven't been vaccinated.

Exactly what I said, growstuff.
There was an outbreak of measles at a city near us pre-Covid and notices in hospital outpatient clinics about it, warning patients.

Are you getting confused with what I quoted from EllanV?

Quite a few cases of sadly misplaced optimism here. We're far from out of the woods yet, and even if this latest virus appears less extreme than the Delta variant, its much-increased infection rate may well cancel out any overall reduction in either hospitalisation or death rates. I worry that some of the more upbeat assessments may encourage people to let their guard down, which is the last thing we should do just now. Stay safe out there.

Well said you.

It was great when the only people who had access to all the data were those directly involved with it. In winter more people die for all sorts of reasons and have done for centuries, often related to flu in the past, anyone remember good old flu? It also seems to be the case that no-one can die of anything other than Covid these days. In winter there are always more people absent from work so has the virus taken the place of flu? No-one ever made a great thing of being off with it.