UK are first in Europe with Over 150,000 deaths

Whether there is or not- and I don't think any of us mere mortals know- stopping testing BEFORE returning home after a trip abroad, is very wrong, bordering on criminal.

Pinch of salt needed..the report doesn't separate out the figures of eg elderly cancer patients who tested positive but who died of cancer...that was terminal anyway, ditto lung and respiratory disease due to heart failure all not covid except that had it..without symptoms..then there arethose with covid inflammory response and all sorts of other health conditions..but it's all lumped under covid...

Rileysnana

It is sad that people have died and are continuing to die. Families are devastated. But how true are these numbers if people have had the virus got over it and then died of other reasons but fell into the 28 days of having covid. The true numbers will take years to finally be known as many thousands will die through not getting treatment and diagnosis for other diseases.

And how many people died on the 29th day after being diagnosed with Covid?

Certainly there are some discrepancies, but the argument that many of the people with Covid on the death certificate would have died when they did anyway is absolute nonsense.

SuRu

I think we won't truly know which country has done "best" or "worst" for some time because of the different ways in which countries are using statistics. In the UK, we count anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive Covid test as having died of Covid, even if they already had a serious health condition like cancer or even if they were to get knocked down by a bus. In Germany, where my sister lives, they talk about "dying with Covid" if someone has another health problem and they don't count those deaths with their Covid death statistics. So we're not comparing like with like.

This was my first thought. Many people have caught Covid while in hospital and died of their original condition rather than Covid but have been included in the Covid death statistics. Each country records their Covid deaths differently so we really cannot make fair comparisons.

Nan0

Pinch of salt needed..the report doesn't separate out the figures of eg elderly cancer patients who tested positive but who died of cancer...that was terminal anyway, ditto lung and respiratory disease due to heart failure all not covid except that had it..without symptoms..then there arethose with covid inflammory response and all sorts of other health conditions..but it's all lumped under covid...

Nope. Most of those people would not have died when they did, if they hadn't been infected with Covid.

I'm mortal. I've been able to read since I was five. So I can understand things.

Here you go. Even The Sun has worked it out. No Deltacron.

www.thesun.co.uk/health/17267754/deltacron-covid-variant-slammed-not-threat/

twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1480314458882854912

Musicgirl

SuRu

I think we won't truly know which country has done "best" or "worst" for some time because of the different ways in which countries are using statistics. In the UK, we count anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive Covid test as having died of Covid, even if they already had a serious health condition like cancer or even if they were to get knocked down by a bus. In Germany, where my sister lives, they talk about "dying with Covid" if someone has another health problem and they don't count those deaths with their Covid death statistics. So we're not comparing like with like.

This was my first thought. Many people have caught Covid while in hospital and died of their original condition rather than Covid but have been included in the Covid death statistics. Each country records their Covid deaths differently so we really cannot make fair comparisons.

No. It doesn't involve many people. They would have lived for longer, if they hadn't caught Covid.

Well I am not sure I will trust a report by The Sun, sorry.

We mere mortals do not know- either if there is, there are new variants- or if there is/there are NOT. Whichever way you look at this, I shall repeat what I said above, this is NOT the time to give up pre-travel/return to UK testing, not for Brits, residents, or anyone at all. End of.

Proud to say we tested before travelling to UK, and before our return- even though we travelled in our own car in one go. We have now put ourselves in voluntary quarantine for 7 days - just on the off-chance we could have picked up something during our 2 coffee/WC stops on MWay over- as the customers were mainly truckers from all over. Not legally required, but I think that is the responsible thing to do. We stocked up freezer before we left.

I give up. There's no new variant. How about believing Chise, who is a scientist working on the Moderna vaccine?

Or the Telegraph? Or any other proper news outlet?

I'm away to drink myself into a stupor.

No. It doesn't involve many people. They would have lived for longer, if they hadn't caught Covid.

I feel an Alegrias moment coming on with this, growstuff

How many times does it have to be said...

Or the Telegraph? Or any other proper news outlet?

Not so sure that the Telegraph counts as a proper news outlet these days...

You have more energy than me MaizieD and growstuff.

I'm just amazed at the number of people falling under buses in the last 22 months.

MaizieD

^Or the Telegraph? Or any other proper news outlet?^

Not so sure that the Telegraph counts as a proper news outlet these days...

Aye, fair enough.

Pass the gin.

Alegrias1

I give up. There's no new variant. How about believing Chise, who is a scientist working on the Moderna vaccine?

Or the Telegraph? Or any other proper news outlet?

I'm away to drink myself into a stupor.

I agree with you.

How about believing this Tweet:

Lots of reports of Omicron sequences carrying Delta-like mutations (eg P681R or L452R). Although a subset of these might end up being real, the vast majority will most likely turn out to be contamination or coinfection. No clear signals of anything real or nasty happening (yet).
To be sure a signal like this is real you really want multiple sequencing labs finding the same recombinant/homoplasy independently (or at least on different sequencing runs) - ideally you would look into the raw seq files as well and show no mixed bases.
As far as I understand it these are appearing now for two reasons:
1) Lots of Delta and Omicron circulating in the same areas
2) Some older sequencing primer sets being less effective at picking up parts of Omicron so low level contamination with Delta being selectively picked up
Finally its worth adding... much of what we understand about what makes Delta more transmissible/infectious, Omicron already possess - its currently unclear to me what Omicron could have to gain from Delta (with what we currently know at least)
Just to add to this thread as there's further similar reports... True recombinants don't tend to appear until a few weeks/months after there's been substancial co-circulation - we're only a couple of weeks into Omicron - I really doubt there are any prevelent recombinants yet...
Small update: the Cypriot 'Deltacron' sequences reported by several large media outlets look to be quite clearly contamination - they do not cluster on a phylogenetic tree and have a whole Artic primer sequencing amplicon of Omicron in an otherwise Delta backbone.

It's by Tom Peacock, who is a virologist at Imperial.

Alegrias1

You have more energy than me MaizieD and growstuff.

I'm just amazed at the number of people falling under buses in the last 22 months.

Not sure I understand this reference to my energy levels.

I just meant that you are still answering the with/of comments. I don't have the staying power. Keep at it.

Thanks for the post from Peacock.

Quite large numbers within this statistic are people who have sadly died whilst positive with Covid but not from Covid. Until the figures are further broken down there is no real understanding of the true state of covid mortality. I know of several folk who are part of the statistic yet did not die of Covid.

Alegrias1

I give up. There's no new variant. How about believing Chise, who is a scientist working on the Moderna vaccine?

Or the Telegraph? Or any other proper news outlet?

I'm away to drink myself into a stupor.

Cheers. As said, it makes very little difference to the question of pre-travel testing to return to UK. Variant or no variant- NO difference whatsoever. Stopping pre-travel testing is madness. Testing after return is far too late!

Calistemon
very glad you didn’t need your passport to pop over the border
? I live only a couple of miles from the Welsh border but where we live no one thinks anything of going back and forth to visit to shop or visit my elderly cousins always abiding by the welsh rules of cause just wish the four governments could sort themselves out so there is one rule for the whole of the UK.
when you live so close to a border that has never felt like a different country for many people.I know they are but in my lifetime we were all so friendly to one another. one has never had to think about going and coming my husband was born in Wales and both of us have many members of our extended family who live in Wales,Scotland and Ireland it’s sad to feel separated now ?

Means nothing until it is converted into % of population/ age groups etc. also compare with current flu etc deaths

I’ve always found it difficult to believe the oft put out statements that people have died of some other disease but have Covid on their death certificate. It’s just an opinion of mine but I don’t believe doctors are happily writing Covid on death certificates when the person actually died of cancer or whatever. It would be like some giant conspiracy of doctors to skew the figures deliberately. Whoever seriously believes that a person who fell under a bus but happened to have Covid would have Covid written on their death certificate? As someone said up thread, there must have been a lot of people falling under buses lately judging by the number of times we’ve heard that analogy.

Alegrias1

I just meant that you are still answering the with/of comments. I don't have the staying power. Keep at it.

Thanks for the post from Peacock.

Ah! I think I understand.

The "with/of" comments are a distraction. Yes, there are a few people who died from Covid, who were terminally ill anyway and would have died within days - but not many. Statistically, they're not even relevant. To balance them out, there are also people who died from Covid after the 28 day cut off period.

There are a number of ways the number of deaths are calculated. The ONS figures are slightly higher than the NHS figures and excess deaths are also recorded. It's impossible to give an exact number of people who have died from Covid with no other complications, but it's fair to say the figures aren't that far out.

My daughter's partner (BTW he's a scientist) has spent much of the last two years analysing the data for a respected UK organisation, with reference to causes of death, the aim being to try and identify risk factors accurately, so these people can be targeted for interventions. I know he gets quite wound up about the "with/of" arguments. The facts are clear - tens of thousands of people have died prematurely as a direct result of Covid.

maddyone

I’ve always found it difficult to believe the oft put out statements that people have died of some other disease but have Covid on their death certificate. It’s just an opinion of mine but I don’t believe doctors are happily writing Covid on death certificates when the person actually died of cancer or whatever. It would be like some giant conspiracy of doctors to skew the figures deliberately. Whoever seriously believes that a person who fell under a bus but happened to have Covid would have Covid written on their death certificate? As someone said up thread, there must have been a lot of people falling under buses lately judging by the number of times we’ve heard that analogy.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, it does seem that some people believe that tens of thousands of people fall under buses every year.

It's all very well saying that people would have died anyway, but I wouldn't think that's much consolation to their families.