Western Australia bans unvaccinated parents from visiting their sick children in hospitals

I hope I am not the only one who is alarmed at the pro-vaccination dogma and propaganda. Dissenting voices from qualified professionals have been silenced, and the matter is presented as totally black/white. You're either a responsible, sensible PRO Vax, or a crazy ANTI-Vax, regarded as a conspiracy-theorist and even lumped together with Q-anon etc. The truth is far more nuanced. The vaccine has caused more harm than we have been told. Covid is treatable in many other ways. It troubles me that so few people seem to see the danger we are in as a society and how this is being exploited. Our fear is being used to control us, and I think we should ask ourselves whom this is serving.

I'm tired about hearing about 'Freedom for unvaccinated people'. What about the the freedom for people who work in hospitals? How do you think they feel when they have to risk their lives and the lives of their families for people who think they know better?
People who are working hard in hospitals don't have time to set up public demonstrations, let us speak up for them!

Difficult question. I suspect it depends on the individual case because some parents would be an asset at the bedside and others would not be. But I wouldn't want a child surrounded by other visitors (or staff) in a public ward who were unvaccinated. The problem of the unvaccinated is not susceptible to short term measures like PR and compulsion: like many other problems it needs a massive effort in the education system so that people acquire the ability to spot crooked thinking.

Well they better get vaccine then ! No problem at all really is there? Good for Australia ??

If the children are already in a weakened state the last thing they need is a visitor who exposes them to additional risks. The policy is right.

I do wonder if such stringent rules are just delaying the inevitable? Covid is here to stay.also I never understood the logic behind stopping people from visiting a dying loved one? THEYRE DYING!! How many times can you get killed by this virus?! Then allow time as long as you like with them deceased when ten minutes before- they weren't and so needed you? Inhuman and frankly bloody stupid!!!

That is so sad. However, the other patients may be extremely vulnerable/immunocompromised and the hospital has a duty to protect them. Whilst it is recognised that vaccines don't stop the risk, they do reduce the risk alongside PPE.
I feel terribly for those children who are separated from their parents when they need them.

Just this morning I heard that a young Australian friend of mine, originally from WA, but currently in Melbourne has waited 10 months and had been given 6 refusals before being given the go ahead to rejoin her family in Western Australia.

(^and I am pretty sure the Australian government wont be consulting either you or me^)

It's not a Federal Government decision, I think it is just WA. Other States may follow although the Queensland MOH tried to put people off the Astra Zeneca vaccine, thereby worrying a lot of people who may have refused to be vaccinated as a result.

Doodledog

I suppose that depends on whether they were vulnerable in the first place, like the babies on the SCU when my son was born.

That does sound distressing Doodledog.

I know people who have been in hospital or visited dying relatives in Australian hospitals and the rules seem to vary greatly from State to State.

Doodledog

Callistemon21

If people complaining about illiberality had a grandchild in hospital (particularly a clinically vulnerable grandchild) would they be happy to have unvaccinated visitors around them?

The parents - if they have been tested before going in and/or had had Covid and recovered - are not just any visitors.

I know, and it’s a difficult situation, although to others in the ward they are just ‘any visitors’. My feelings are based on how I felt when my own baby was put at risk by an unvaccinated person, and much as I understand the civil rights issue, that is difficult to shake off.

An unvisited child will, I hope, get better and go home to her parents - a child who dies as a result of contact with an unvaccinated visitor won’t.

I'm not sure why any unvaccinated parent would be anywhere near any other child than their own.
They're not crowded in huge wards.

But what risk is it if we are vaccinated. I spend all my working hours with 'the unvaccinated', young children, I dont feel at risk because of their non vaccination status, because I am vaccinated.

GagaJo

Alegrias1

Australia is not as liberal as many think.

This. 100 times this. ??????

Ask any refugee or asylum seeker how liberal Aus is, while they're incarcerated on Nauru.

????????

SueDonim

My medic dd has a TB immunity problem, Doodledog which cannot be resolved by any means. She has not been permitted to work with anyone with TB from Day One as a student, for both their sake and her own sake.

She has no desire to work as a respiratory doctor but even if she did, it couldn’t happen because of her TB status.

Yes, and that is fair. it would be harsh if she wanted to work in respiratory care, but as it is not safe, it makes sense for her to be disallowed from doing so. This is the same principle, I think.

Thinking about it, the AIDS analogy works better if you see it as those who don't test (equivalent to those refusing the vaccine) muddying the waters for those who do (the vaccinated), and limiting the freedoms of everyone because no-one could be sure which group a new partner belonged to.

If everyone tested/vaccinated, both diseases would be easier to control. Yes, it might impinge on the freedom of those who don't want to, but the alternative is clear - they shouldn't have unproductive sex in one case, or they lose the right to be around vulnerable people in the other. I wouldn't advocate enforced testing or vaccination, but see no reason why there shouldn't be consequences for those who don't comply (trickier in the case of sexual behaviour, obviously).

My medic dd has a TB immunity problem, Doodledog which cannot be resolved by any means. She has not been permitted to work with anyone with TB from Day One as a student, for both their sake and her own sake.

She has no desire to work as a respiratory doctor but even if she did, it couldn’t happen because of her TB status.

I don't see it as the same thing, though. In this case, there are two distinct groups. Those who are unable to get the vaccine, and everyone else. Those in the former group are relatively small in number, and if all other precautions are taken should, IMO, be able to visit children or others in hospital. Those in the latter group who refuse the vaccine are knowingly putting others at risk, and much as I feel for their children, the decision was theirs.

I suppose that's the worry for me penalizing someone because they think differently to me. I spent 10 years or so working for an HIV charity and this reminds me of the debates back then. Those who got tested and knew they were positive and therefore should be upfront with sexual partners, but alongside that those who didnt get tested and therefore could carry on with no need to tell anyone anything. It makes me uneasy all of it.

Yes, I appreciate that, too, and can see the problem. However, the number of people who can't be vaccinated is very small, and the risk would at least be mitigated. It seems unfair to penalise someone for a situation beyond their control, but I think it is different when not getting vaccinated has been a deliberate choice.

I am so sorry for your experience doodledog. I am just trying to unpick all this a little, so if it was up to you (and I am pretty sure the Australian government wont be consulting either you or me) it would only be those who choose not to be vaccinated. It gets messy doesnt it because the risk to patients etc is the same whether they chose not to be vaccinated or whether they cant be vaccinated due to health grounds.

Josieann

Your case sounds distressing Doodledog especially with such a tiny infant.

In 2020 before vaccines and people weren't allowed to visit patients at all, does anyone know what the ruling was here in the UK for parents of young children in hospital?

It was very distressing, and was probably worse because if the doctor had been vaccinated it wouldn't have happened. That might seem silly, but I suppose it's easier to accept things that 'can't be helped' than those that could have been if not for someone's selfishness.

I appreciate, however, that I am not the most rational person when it comes to this issue, so although I would definitely vote in favour of the deliberately unvaccinated being banned from hospitals and care homes, it probably shouldn't be up to me.

That rule does seem over the top to me. If they have no symptoms and wear full PPE then I would think they should be allowed to visit, both as an advocate for the child and their mental well being.

I agree GrannyGravy13, it’s the same issue as has been argued many times over on Gransnet as unvaccinated healthcare workers, there has to be some proportionality and exceptions in differing circumstances - which knowing Western Australia and having a sister who is a nurse there, I’m sure there will be in reality.
All I’m saying is that the state government there have done an amazing job of keeping the population safe, and most of them are very appreciative of that fact.

And some people are unable to have vaccinations, are they barred as well. I think the legal cases will be interesting.

If your child is rushed into hospital as an emergency and you are unvaccinated it would be impossible to suddenly be fully vaccinated in order to visit them as it takes many weeks.

A negative test should be sufficient or proof of antibodies.