Excess deaths Pandemic legacy

The NHS is overloaded and underfunded. The current government is not interested in ‘fixing’ it.

Sounds interesting, but it’s behind a pay wall…..

ukandeu.ac.uk/why-have-there-been-excess-deaths-this-summer/

Maybe a similar article?

i clicked on the link to read this article but i would need to join up for a free trial of the telegraph, you may not get much response if people can't read it.

You can read it without the paywall here:-

12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2022%2F10%2F29%2Fdisastrous-legacy-left-lockdown-non-covid-excess-deaths-overtake%2F

Blossoming

You can read it without the paywall here:-

12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2022%2F10%2F29%2Fdisastrous-legacy-left-lockdown-non-covid-excess-deaths-overtake%2F

Thanks for that. I managed to read the article avoiding the paywall so assumed that others could too.

This government has no interest in repairing the NHS, nor in embracing the principle of prevention.

The system is b*****ed - they do not care.

All those operations and treatable illnesses that were submerged by the pandemic are coming home to roost. The NHS was already on its knees and not getting on top of pandemic planning in the past pushed it further into the mire.

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

Normandygirl

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

But without lockdowns the NHS would have been overwhelmed and people wouldn’t have been treated anyway.

Lockdown was not wrong - the fact that the government had not engaged in proper pandemic planning is what was wrong - lockdown was inevitable.

Normandygirl

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

That is a massive over simplification of the realities facing the NHS throughout the pandemic. Protection of the patients already undergoing treatment had to be the priority. Clinicians knew what the consequences of diagnostic delays would be, but also understood also the consequences of not restricting activity.

There needs to be another (and perhaps parallel) enquiry about all the fraud and corruption generated as a result of the pandemic and government policies:

Individuals handing out contracts to their mates for supplies which turned out to be substandard

The money wasted on the failed "track and trace" system

Fraud generated as a result of the furlough scheme because there were not enough checks

Fraud generated by the government gauranteed loans to "fake" companies because there were not enough checks.

To what extend has all this contributed to the current economic situation?

Luckygirl3

This government has no interest in repairing the NHS, nor in embracing the principle of prevention.

The system is b*****ed - they do not care.

All those operations and treatable illnesses that were submerged by the pandemic are coming home to roost. The NHS was already on its knees and not getting on top of pandemic planning in the past pushed it further into the mire.

I read the article too.

The excess deaths were mainly coronary or diabetes. The article said that there was a spike in heart conditions a month or so after people had Covid, which is corroborated by other sources. It's also known that Covid is dangerous for diabetics and the effects last for months after Covid has gone.

The conclusion seemed to be that much more research is needed on the long-term effects of Covid. It's not just a respiratory disease, but causes damage to a number of different organs.

The article isn't just about other conditions which couldn't be treated during the pandemic, but about the damage caused by Covid itself.

Normandygirl

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

I don't believe the lockdown was wrong. There was very little alternative because transmission was causing so much disruption to essential services.

Normandygirl

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

No, that wasn't the cause of the excess deaths. Covid was.

All those things biglouis probably contributed to mental health problems too, as people realised that there was no competent leadership and that greed was being prioritised over the good of the UK population.

growstuff

Normandygirl

The lockdown was wrong in principle and wrong in execution. No amount of money for the NHS changes the fact that access to medical diagnosis and treatment were cut off for thousands. It was stated many times by many experts that the lockdowns were going to create more deaths than the virus. No one wanted to listen. Too late now.

No, that wasn't the cause of the excess deaths. Covid was.

No, the excess deaths in question are Non Covid.
The impact from lockdowns is now killing more people than the virus. Experts believe that higher deaths from heart disease and diabetes plus the inevitable economic damage, mean the indirect effects of the lockdowns will be far greater than Covid itself.
Where was the risk/benefit analysis?

No, the deaths were almost certainly the result of damage caused to the body by Covid after the 28 day cut off. Covid causes systemic damage, which can take time to develop. They would not have been recorded as Covid because they weren't caused by direct infection, but the damage that Covid does.

Have you read the NHS analysis?

Which experts?

Here there is a huge shortage of GPS, particularly in country areas. They are not well supported and new medical graduates do not want to fulfil that role. I asked my grandson, who is about to complete his medical training and his response was, ‘no way’. They need to train more people but to get into medical school at the moment you have to have almost perfect exam scores and many get rejected.

growstuff

No, the deaths were almost certainly the result of damage caused to the body by Covid after the 28 day cut off. Covid causes systemic damage, which can take time to develop. They would not have been recorded as Covid because they weren't caused by direct infection, but the damage that Covid does.

Have you read the NHS analysis?

The largest demographic for excess deaths are the under 40's who were largely unaffected by the virus so that doesn't make sense. Where is the data that correlates excess deaths to covid ?

Where did you get that information from?

The conditions associated with excess deaths were circulatory diseases and diabetes, both of which have been correlated with Covid.

It is very possible that there will be excess cancer deaths in the future because treatment was delayed, but those statistics haven't shown up yet.

The Office for Health Improvement and Disparities didn't record excess deaths for under 40s, who presumably fell into the 25-49 group. The majority of excess deaths in that group were caused by Covid infection directly.

app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYmUwNmFhMjYtNGZhYS00NDk2LWFlMTAtOTg0OGNhNmFiNGM0IiwidCI6ImVlNGUxNDk5LTRhMzUtNGIyZS1hZDQ3LTVmM2NmOWRlODY2NiIsImMiOjh9

I think that the responses demonstrate exactly what's needed. Research and analysis into the causes of the excess deaths. Apparently it's not just in the UK. It's urgent but there doesn't seem to be any real interest. Which is odd.

They are being researched, but it's not that easy. The ONS didn't link characteristics such as age, occupation, gender, ethnicity, etc, so it would need somebody to go through every death and record details for each individual. The statistics show a significant increase in deaths from circulatory diseases and diabetes, but the patients' Covid history wasn't necessarily recorded. Graphs show a correlation between Covid surges and deaths from non-Covid causes, but the exact cause isn't proven. It's known that Covid caused long-term damage to a many different organs, including the heart and pancreas, but it's expensive and time-consuming to go through individual patients' records, but it is happening. It's irresponsible of journalists to claim that lockdown caused the deaths because the evidence doesn't support that.