Gransnet forums


Cultural destruction

(42 Posts)
whitewave Sat 11-Jul-15 20:13:18

I have just watched a programme showing ISIS destroying ancient works of art. The programme argued that an aggressor goes first for the people's history and then the people. Would Gran's feel "weakened" if an aggressor destroyed anything physical relating to our culture and which particular object would it be?

Tegan Sat 11-Jul-15 20:28:40

Is that the Dan Cruickshank programme? The bit where he sat in a tearoom in London and the IS man explained the reasoning behind the destruction chilled me to the bone.

thatbags Sat 11-Jul-15 20:47:58

Destroying cultural and artistic achievements of a culture is a way of showing complete contempt for that culture and its people. Terror tactic. Designed to subdue people into submission.

Ana Sat 11-Jul-15 20:49:17

Yes. I'm not sure that would work in the UK, whatever they chose to destroy.

whitewave Sat 11-Jul-15 21:01:41

Yes tegan he was chilling. I think it shows what can happen when people adopt an ideology or belief which allows absolutely no room for any other.

With regard to our cultural heretige I think that I would feel bad if some of our more recent art was destroyed funnily enough. Things like the men stood on the beach or the horse heads in Scotland. Not sure of any of the proper names but love them, plus other stuff.

whitewave Sat 11-Jul-15 21:03:30


Tegan Sat 11-Jul-15 21:14:03

The worrying thing is that they're destroying their own culture and justifying it confused.

vampirequeen Sat 11-Jul-15 22:55:47

Maybe they want to start at Year 1 again like Pol Pot did in Cambodia.

vampirequeen Sat 11-Jul-15 23:08:23

I's be gutted if they destroyed Stonehenge,the new mosque in Bradford, Westminster Abbey, the Angel of the North, the Anthony Gorman men on the beach installation (can't remember it's name) and the Holbein Henry VIII.

I know that's a random selection. I think it's because Stonehenge, the mosque and Westminster Abbey represent our religious heritage. I know there are other faiths in the UK but those buildings are the ones that remind me of spirituality and religions.

The Angel of the North and the men on the beach just take my breath away and I'd miss them.

The Henry VIII portrait is just a great work of art. It's one of my favourites. No other reason.

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 11:40:16

It is indeed absolutely tragic and sickening... and beggars belief.

However I do believe that by far greater a % of loss of culture in countries like Irak and the old Persia, Greece and all over, has been caused by us in the West, through war, colonisation and massive theft by our Museums and now very wealthy art sellers.

Can you imagine how we would feel if Stonehenge had been dismantled and shipped to Greece or wherever?

aggie Sun 12-Jul-15 11:47:11

Thinking about this , it would make me cross and sad but not really impinge on my day to day life

jinglbellsfrocks Sun 12-Jul-15 11:48:49

Oh come on! How can you pick one particular structure. Of course we would be immensely deprived. Daft question.

jinglbellsfrocks Sun 12-Jul-15 11:56:12

Not hearing Big Ben strike on the midnight news, if I had to pick one.

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 17:02:11

May I ask, which question is daft, and why? Thanks.

durhamjen Sun 12-Jul-15 17:08:45

Henry VIII did a lot of the destruction. It's now owned by English Heritage and many of us pay to see it.
I'd be very upset if York Minster and Durham Cathedral were destroyed. It's the amazing craftsmanship that went into them, for whatever reason, that I would not want to see destroyed.
The weather erodes gradually, not all at once, and York Minster has its own stoneyard. One year there were stonemasons from all over the world making replicas of stones in the Minster.

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 17:32:23

Indeed henry VIII was the greatest ever destroyer of wonderful Abbeys, Churches and more - not due to belief, but due to greed and paying his supporters with the reclaimed materials and lands.

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 17:36:36

From the Telegraph this January: Cromwell was the ISIS of his day:

'And then there is his impact on this country’s artistic and intellectual heritage. No one can be sure of the exact figure, but it is estimated that the destruction started and legalised by Cromwell amounted to 97% of the English art then in existence. Statues were hacked down. Frescoes were smashed to bits. Mosaics were pulverized. Illuminated manuscripts were shredded. Wooden carvings were burned. Precious metalwork was melted down. Shrines were reduced to rubble. This vandalism went way beyond a religious reform. It was a frenzy, obliterating the artistic patrimony of centuries of indigenous craftsmanship with an intensity of hatred for imagery and depicting the divine that has strong and resonant parallels today'.

97% - that is an amazing and terrifying figure!!!

Tegan Sun 12-Jul-15 17:49:41

IS are destroying things to increase the value of what remains which they are then selling to finance themselves [according to the programme]. Which is rather two faced.

jinglbellsfrocks Sun 12-Jul-15 20:05:48

No you can't granjura. Work it out.

whitewave Sun 12-Jul-15 20:14:07

What I also found extremely unsettling was an Americans comment that suggested that they are unstoppable. The are only just across the Med.

vampirequeen Sun 12-Jul-15 20:20:20

Henry VIII had his faults but the portrait is still fantastic.

durhamjen Sun 12-Jul-15 20:29:24

Is it really him, though, vampire?

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 20:48:55

sorry jingl- but I truly can't ... work it out ! Could you please explain please. Thank you.

Ana Sun 12-Jul-15 20:50:20

I think jingl was referring to the question posed in the OP, if that will set your mind at rest, granjura.

granjura Sun 12-Jul-15 20:57:39

I have just watched a programme showing ISIS destroying ancient works of art. The programme argued that an aggressor goes first for the people's history and then the people. Would Gran's feel "weakened" if an aggressor destroyed anything physical relating to our culture and which particular object would it be?

Thank you Ana- I've just re-read the OP and I just can't see how it could be answered with 'no you can't' - would you care to explain. But perhaps it would be better for Jingl to do so, as she probably knows better what she meant.