Plant based eating and veganism

I am happy to eat vegetarian most of the time, I eat meat probably no more that twice a month, but could never become a vegan. I have never found a decent vegan cheese, no through lack of trying I might add, even when they smell right the texture and taste is wrong. Alternative milks don't seem to make good custard either, I've tried Almond, Rice etc. I enjoy eggs, and the lutein content in organic eggs is far superior to that in any vegetable, lutein is good for the eyes delaying the onset of macular degeneration. I also enjoy honey on my porridge.

But most of all the idea that plants are ok to eat when it has been proved that they communicate with each other seems to go against the vegan ethos. Or am I wrong?

ljp1, this from the vegan society: "How can vegans get enough omega-3 fat?
Include good sources of ALA in your daily diet, such as chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds and walnuts, and use vegetable (rapeseed) oil as your main cooking oil. To meet the ALA recommendations of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) and the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), you would need to eat about a tablespoon of chia seeds or ground linseed, two tablespoons of hemp seeds or six walnut halves daily."

More detailed info is available on
www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/omega-3-and-omega-6-fats

This info to clarify that a dairy- or meat-inclusive diet is not actually necessary for long-chain fatty acids.

Cows do not get vitamin D from plants. It is a fat soluble vitamin made by animals using sunshine. As we live at a northern latitude we are deficient in vitamin d because we see little strong sunshine and cover ourselves to prevent skin cancer. A good natural source is oily fish but that doesn’t help vegans!

I am veggie most of the time but do eat fish. I would find a vegan diet trying as seeds and nuts tend to aggravate my diverticulitis. Does this ring a bell with anyone else?

Vegetarian diets, although better than eating meat etc., are not socially responsible. They are attributable to billions of deaths and torture of cows each year, not to mention the cruel separation of mother and baby.

Many people would be B12 or D deficient, simply because of bad food choices/junk or convenience foods etc. It is not exclusive to vegan diets. Its up to us to supplement as we see fit.

As for essential fatty acids etc., again it all depends on which research you believe. The dairy industry, after all, want you to believe that their products are healthy for you but there is so much evidence to the contrary from professional doctors and other people with little or no personal interest in you believing these facts either way. Personally, I found out over a year ago that dairy can contribute to thyroid problems and after becoming vegan and eating a much healthier diet, I seem to have normalised my thyroid, hence no need to take further medication.

Regardless of the health benefits of a vegan diet (or whatever you choose to believe), the main problem that many seem to miss is that of the treatment of animals. You dont have to look far for that evidence.

We all know about corruption and that it is prevalent in the human world and animal agriculture is certainly no exception.

It would seem that all you people who have decided that animals replicate humans in their emotional responses. The Telegraph piece is very misleading and written by someone who is not a food provider. That is what farmers do - provide the nation with food - frequently under difficult situations. The method of livestock farming that has been traditional replaces soil nutrients so that further food giving crops can be grown. And not to mention that our countryside is the result of that Livestock farming culture. If you take Veganism to the ultimate i.e. no animals, then the countryside as we know and love it will disappear under a canopy of scrub and be of no use to anyone. Please Vegans all, balance in all things. You do your thing and I'll do mine. And I like my countryside as it is.

#1 daughter has been vegan for many years. She works for Greenpeace so it is on moral grounds. My grandson will be 12 in June and was vegan for the first 10 years, but opted to be veggie now, His dad is a meat eater but he won't eat meat. His little sister is 3 next week. She's vegan from birth too and both kids have no problems, mum knows how to vary the food and give a diet that has all necessary elements for growth. Grandson is tall and granddaughter sturdy, thank goodness. Neither child gets much in the way of sweets etc except for treats. Ourside cakeshop windows we just explain they are not vegan . this no longer works with grandson!

I have been vegetarian for nearly 40 years, mainly because I don't want to eat animals. I know I couldn't kill one myself. I don't eat fish but I do eat cheese and dairy. I'm not happy with myself about this, but I always felt it's hard enough being veggie, yet alone vegan.

I do eat a lot of eggs and cheese. Can't get on with quorn, it upsets my stomach. I do eat lots of nuts and seeds and pulses. Could get by without milk. If I felt that me going vegan would change things for animals, I would do it. I know I am weak. There is a free range beef farm over the fields from me, and I hate to hear the poor cows bellowing for their calves, when they've been taken away. It goes on for days.

Hubby and I gave up eating meat 5-years-ago for moral reasons. We don’t miss it. We still eat responsibly sourced fish, including pole and line caught tuna. We also have quorn in some dishes e.g. chilli (althugh we also enjoy vegetable chilli too), lasagne etc. We don’t miss meat at all.

I eat eggs too, but from my own happy, garden hens.

Is anybody worried about the people in third world countries who have lost their staple food items such as quinoa to the sudden rise of veganism in the West?
They are now going hungry.

Shouldn't we grow our own first and make a planned tradition in diet? Or is our search for health and long life all that matters?

Does the Vegan Society bear a responsibility in this? A concern for animal suffering but no thought to human distress?

I do get my eggs from a very local free range farm, where the hens are wandering all over, and look happy!

What cruel and thoughtless people vegetarians/vegans are! Millions of animals would never even come into existence if it wasn't for farming them. Of course, one would never condone cruelty, but we have the best animal welfare laws and regulations in the world here in the UK. Farmed animals will never go hungry, never be in danger from predators and will be humanely and rapidly dispatched when the time comes. I'd go for that! I have known quite a number of vegetarians and vegans (some in the family) and most have abandoned their vegetarianism. Three have taken up small-holding and now eat their own animals.

Sorry but I don't go along with this. We are meat eaters - though I don't eat a lot of meat - and our teeth as far as I'm aware indicate this. Cutting out elements that we need to keep ourselves healthy sounds like hard work and opens us up to all sorts of health problems I was brought up in a farming community and have no problem with eating meat but I appreciate that others feel otherwise

I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years (and raised 3 vegetarians), we are a healthy lot! So I don’t agree that it is vital to eat meat to stay healthy? it is important for vegetarians and vegans to consider a well balanced diet and all of the vegetarians I know do this! Because I am vegetarian I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit so easily make the recommended 5 portions a day, my food is generally high in fibre and low in saturated fats and salt all healthy choices.
I am not cruel Nemosmum! I haven’t attacked meat eaters so I don’t appreciate a comment like this at those of us who choose a meat free diet!

I don't think that humans need cow's milk, which is the right formula for calf. Easy to get correct vitamins from a varied diet. I have been vegetarian for many year and recently became vegan. I had not idea until recently of the intense cruelty involved in dairy production. Cows skipping about in green pasture is a myth for so many dairy animal and what do you think happens to the calves who never get to drink their mother's milk?
I stopped eating meat after see a press photo of a live pig who survived having its throat cut and was trying to climb of a tub of boiling water. That was enough for me.

Ive been veggie for over 50 years and now vegan. Its a much healthier diet in my opinion, than the over reliance on processed food that many people rely on in the UK, yet vegans who prefer a plant based diet are sneered at. This idea that meat and dairy are somehow essential is obviously not the case, there are cultures where dairy is not consumed, for example, cows milk is designed for cows at the end of the day. If meat eaters had to use their teeth to kill their food I might accept that argument, and if they had to visit a slaughterhouse where animals are killed on an industrial scale, I wonder how many of them would wish to do that. we have so many food choices these days if someone chooses not to eat meat or dairy then thats up to them, if someone wishes to fill their supermarket trolley with packets of crisps, biscuits , cakes, sausages etc ditto. But don't tell me that is a healthier choice. Without industrial factory farming cows, hens etc would not become extinct, they have been bred unnaturally, and there would still be the wild varieties of chicken, oxen etc..

I signed up to Veganuary this year. Always been veggie, but my family are concerned that I will have to take supplements for as long as I hold out (sic!). So far have loved every meal and my only quibble is with vegan butter which I tried making, not very successfully, but practice makes perfect. Two other issues - if you live with carnivores/pescatorians etc you've got to cook separately and to date have not found a really good milk substitute which works with real coffee - following suggestion have gone with the Oaty Barista milk, which is pretty good, but not the same. My other hassle is that I do like boiled, scrambled, fried and poached egg on toast for lunch or a light supper and although silken tofu makes a good alternative to scrambled, there are no ways round the others!

There are lots of non-meat foods now that make catering easy for vegans. Linda McCartney range does very tasty sausage rolls and pies and a variety of sausages, pasties, burgers etc with all kinds of vegetables, soya, and lentils in them. The main supermarkets do their own meatfree ranges and there are also dairy free cheeses and milk and ice cream. I haven't found a cheese as good as ones made from milk, but some are okish. I don't like soya milk or almond milk on cereal but actually prefer porridge and weetabix with water and no milk. I eat meat and fish, but very much less than I used to. Vegan daughter's dishes are delicious, some using tofu or lentils etc. Her cakes are great too. Who would have thought beetroot and chocolate make a good combination? I do worry about the cows losing their calves and the way animals are slaughtered, but also about how we import foods other countries then have to do without. Wouldn't it be nice if everywhere had small farms close by that had a few happy cows, who kept their calves and still gave a little milk, and we all used less, and if all the animals fed locals, who could see they were well cared-for. And if more farms changed to growing vegetables and beans and beans and lentils maybe they could fill the gap left.

No vegans worried about the poor people in other countries then? Or the environmental impact of shipping the quantities of vegetables and fruit that make up a vegan diet and can't be grown in Britain.
The Independent published research that shows it is more environmentally friendly to eat a couple of lamb chops from Britain than avocados from Kenya. Where land has been turned over from crops that support families to crops like avocados that are more profitable for export to the west.

Come on vegans, engage in a debate. At the moment you don't exactly have the moral high ground!

The issue of the sustainability of the food supply is another topic!
personally I try to buy seasonal produce from local suppliers farmers markets local greengrocer etc so I don’t need to be taking moral high grounds! I don’t feel I should have to justify my choice of a meat free diet I don’t preach to meat eaters and do not expect to preached at back

The Uk imports lots of meat as well, well over 50% food is imported, meat production uses far more land, water and other resources and produces more pollution than arable farming. Food has to be grown / imported for animal feed, this could be converted to food suitable for human consumption and is far more environmentally friendly. I suggest you see the film Forks over Knives - its on Netflix.

I agree not all plants ethically sourced - but using this to justify eating highly unethically produced meat products is not a valid argument.

Eglantine, the vegans I know shop at farmers' markets, so that is fairly locally grown stuff. Also they get veg boxes from local farms, and this is in London! Daughter used to organise the local transition group. Those are grassroot community projects that aim to increase self-sufficiency to reduce the potential effects of peak oil, climate destruction, and economic instability. She helped with a gardening project to grow food in the community centre garden and helped set up a gardening club after school at grandson's junior school. The children enjoyed learning how to plant and grow and particularly how to harvest and eat! The centre also had a cafe that used produce from the garden. She even built raised beds in the gardens of the council block she lived in then and planted fruit trees that bore fruit.

As a veg/pescatarian, my love affair with cheese continues unabated.
This calf cannot be reunited with her mother so the pull is having no effect.