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LGBT history

(151 Posts)
Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 09:42:36

Corbyn has said his future government will add LGBT history to the school carriculum,

Yes ? No?

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 09:52:40

Am I right in assuming this means LGBT, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender ?

If yes, then my answer would depend on at what age it would be introduced?

Im68Now Tue 01-Nov-16 09:57:27

I wait with interest to see what the Catholic Church says.

Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 10:05:24

Yes Gilly, when studying poetry he wants their sexuality to be discussed too. He thinks teaching the young of the history will,lesson homophobia in the country , he also wants the government to make an apology for past treatment of LGBT's . This was said at a Pink News Awards evening

Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 10:06:35

Ism68, he said schools not church schools

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 10:10:46

Pardon my ignorance Anniebach but what has poetry got to do with it?

I think young children have enough to worry about and they grow up too quickly these days anyway. Discussing such topics in any depth at primary school is a step too far. Maybe just touching on the subject in years 5-6 would be appropriate but that would be enough.

Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 10:26:16

He thinks it important not me Gilly, he gave Wilde as an example

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 10:30:10

There are gay, lesbian etc. people in all walks of life. I still can't see what poetry has got to do with it.

Anniebach Tue 01-Nov-16 10:39:33

Suppose he spoke of Wilde because of his court case, imprisonment and then leaving the country. He also spoke of Alan Turing,

Lillie Tue 01-Nov-16 10:42:50

Oh no, as if teachers don't already have to tread a very careful path in lessons! Sorry, I will be passing that job back to the parents.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 10:51:04

All for it!
Sexual orientation = identity, it doesn't = sexual activity or habits.

We teach small kids about MF /relationships marraiges in history etc, and they cope fine with that, so why does anyone think that they'll suddenly be losing their childhood to learn that x poet was writing to their boyfriend instead of to a wife??

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 10:51:43

I mean we tell them that santa is straight! (& loves Mrs Claus) - is that robbing them of their childhood? knowing Santa's sexual orientation?

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 10:59:49

Children grow up accepting what is around them. For my DGC that happens to be a mummy and a daddy, a grandma and grandad etc. My DD (their auntie) has best friends that are a married lesbian couple neither of whom have parents around them. I have (since I can remember) been the stand in mum to one of them and more recently both of them as a couple. They spend a fair bit of time at my house. My DGC know that they are a couple (we have had awkward but perfectly answerable questions) and they just accept it for what it is. Why do they need to "learn" the biology of it ?

Seriously does a 6-7-8-9-10 year old care whether Wilde wrote to a man or woman in prison? I fear Corbyn may be trying to seek publicity by creating an issue where there is no issue.

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 11:01:33

Do we tell them that Santa is straight notanan ? I have certainly never ever mentioned Santas sexual orientation either to my DGC or my own DC . Strange.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 11:11:00

Yes, we mention hetronormative sexuality so often we don't even notice we're doing it, stories about princesses and their prince, Santa goes home to MrsClaus, "mummies and daddies"..

That's all sexuality, hetrosexuality. It's disproportionately visible and it is right that other sexuality itentities should be better represented to children.

Luckygirl Tue 01-Nov-16 11:17:41

I do not think this is necessary. Children pick up what is happening around them and on the media and can ask questions as they need to.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 11:20:38

well exactly! children pick up on what's around them! and in schools there is still a very hetronormative dialogue when it comes to many subjects, children who have MM or FF or trans parents or who are themselves LGBT will notice that and it affect them when they don't recognise themselves in the way the world is talked about in school

gillybob Tue 01-Nov-16 11:23:02

Exactly Luckygirl .

I'm sorry I can't agree notanan I have never ever mentioned Santas sexual orientation in my life. you do know he's not real don't you? Children do enjoy hearing stories about princes and princesses it is a fact. What would you suggest we do, rewrite story books so princes fall in love with other princes and Kings marry other kings etc. ridiculous

marbles Tue 01-Nov-16 11:39:37

My little GD is friends with two children who each have same sex parents (one couple women, one men) and she has never batted an eyelid about it. To her and her friends it is just another family set up in the way that one friend's parents are divorced, one has a single mum and so on. To her gang it's all perfectly normal and I think this is good because it doesn't make it into a big thing. There is a fine line between making something 'normal' and perfectly acceptable and turning it into a big deal and I think the former approach is much better

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 11:40:41

when it's presented as the default you don't need to explicitly mention it - that's the whole point!

if kids enjoy princess and prince stories why do you think an odd prince and prince story would take anything from that?

rosesarered Tue 01-Nov-16 11:58:31

gillybob grin
Think you have hit the nail on the head, Corbyn is just saying ( at a Pink News Award) just what they wanted to hear! Political posturing.
Does Santa have a sex life? TMI
I await the re-writing of Noddy and Big Ears and The Secret Seven.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 12:01:18

Does Santa have a sex life? TMI

another one using sexual orientation and sexual activity interchangeably

We present santa as hetrosexual - he loves Mrs Claus.
that's his sexuality, not his sexual activity. You can have a sexual identity/orientation and be celibate, sexuality does = having lots of sex!

Luckygirl Tue 01-Nov-16 12:38:42

But heterosexual orientation is the default if you define that by being the majority; so we cannot pretend to children that this is otherwise, and indeed why would we want to? That does not mean that they cannot also accept the minority sexual orientations too; or indeed the whole spectrum of sexual orientation.

I think that marbles' post sums it all up perfectly. Children just absorb all this and do not need lessons on it. It is so heartening that most people don't give a flyer about people's sexual orientation and this is what children will pick up. Once it was not so.

Juggernaut Tue 01-Nov-16 12:42:09

Proof if it were needed that Corbyn's an idiot!

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 12:44:49

But heterosexual orientation is the default if you define that by being the majority; so we cannot pretend to children that this is otherwise

If you are concerned about an accurate proportional representation being presented to children then surely you would agree that we do need an injection of more diversity in what we are presenting as normal.