Denied toilet break

I ask children if they need to go as we line up after play or lunch. Children should be allowed to go when they need, though I have been guilty of saying to 7-8 year olds "Can you just wait till I've done the explanation?" Certainly I've never made anyone wait longer than that. What parents don't see is the chain reaction-one child goes and there is a sudden flood of requests. I usually say put your initials on the board and go as soon as x or y comes back (there are only 2 toilets) then rub your initials off. This works in two different ways: 1. the children go and come back promptly
2. The children (having added their initials) don't go at all.
Some younger Reception and Y1 children, who were allowed to go without asking, got so engrossed in work or play activitiesthat they forgot to go and were consequently wet. I was still harangued by parents. I love the "quiet word".

Older children have to hang on too, but it is different when it is a little child. I would be fuming too. It would be enough to put children going off going to the toilet and that could lead to health issues.

Having a watery accident in the classroom is traumatic for most children, and one they don't forget. I taught various ages from 6 - 15 in my career, and always let them go, even the older ones (if it seemed they were taking advantage, a word with parents about seeing a doctor for possible bladder issues would be sufficient embarrassment for the culprit to stop!) Yes, it can be a nuisance if the class is being constantly interrupted by to-ing and fro-ing, but I believed I was there not just to teach, but to act in loco parentis and look after their emotional welfare too.

I am appalled that young children are asked to maintain control in a way that would not be expected of any adult in a working or social environment. Of course they should be able to go when they need to, it's positively mediaeval to suggest otherwise.
If a child starts to be a problem, constantly bobbing in and out, that's a separate issue to deal with.
As for human rights - children have them too, quizqueen. Even if you would prefer that they didn't!

Quizqueen most teachers are quite relaxed about children leaving the classroom when necessary, especially in these days of TAs.

When my son was at school he had an accident as he wasn't allowed to go to the loo and it wasn't just a wee. I soon made sure he was allowed to go to the loo whenever he needed. Besides from a health point of view it's highly embarrassing for them

Dont risk it happening a second time. Have a quiet, friendly word. My DD had several urinary infections when she was 5/6 and her teacher thought it was a "caper" before we told her. All was well after that. I'm not a teacher but I've found the mostly to be sympathetic.

I must admit that said DD in my post above would say she 'didn't need the toilet' when told to go before sitting down to a meal, then would 'need' to go during the meal.

quizqueen "and stop banging on about human rights for goodness sake. No one has a right to do anything " . I'm not aware of anyone "banging on" about human rights? I mentioned it once and a trawl through the thread reveals that it hasn't been mentioned before or since. I stand by what I said, if I had a child who had genuinely needed to use the lavatory during a lesson, and had been denied, I would demand an explanation from the teacher and/or head teacher. Now I'm "banging on".

As a teacher you know your class. You know who needs to go more often and who fancies a few minutes of freedom. But that said it doesn't mean that the freedom fancier might genuinely need to go.

Upper KS 2 probably could (on most occasions) wait for a while. Also they're old enough to remember to go to the toilet at breaks and lunchtime. That said some girls start their periods in upper KS2 so shouldn't be stopped from going if they ask and it's possible for either gender to have a sudden urge. Lower KS2 children should be encouraged to wait but allowed to go if they need to. KS1 children are still babies and can't wait for more than a few minutes. It's wrong to stop them going.

I have no problem with school rules that tell the children that they should go to the toilet at appropriate times but this particular rule can't be set in stone simply because the human body doesn't always fit in with appropriate times. And what if they child needs more than a pee. Wetting themselves is bad enough but what if the other happens. How humiliating!

If this was an isolated an unusual incident, I would ignore it this once but any repeats and I'm at the school like a shot. We all know some children are chancers but I would expect the teacher to have her characters sussed. A bit unfortunate but I'm glad the wee one managed to hold out in this instance.

This discussion was on mumsnet too. Really, a teacher can't have kids going in and out of class all day when they feel like it and children need to learn to go at break times. Usually a teacher will know if a child just wants to mess about or if it's a bit of an emergency with a child who doesn't usually ask to go to the toilet. Reception children usually have their toilets within their classroom environment so they can go unsupervised when they need to. After that age, they should be able to hold it unless there's a real medical problem.

Families need to support school policies, not oppose them, and stop banging on about human rights for goodness sake. No one has a right to do anything.

Elrel that poor dolly, i hope the chain had been pulled before she went in !

Chewbacca

According to the site ERIC there are no laws to say schools cannot stop pupils from going during lessons, or even lock the toilets.

I don't know what the policy is at my DGD school, but it does seem to be happening to quite a few of the children have been refused. DD will be asking on monday

Isn't denying a child access to the lavatory a breach of their human rights? If I was the parent of a child who had been denied access to the loo, I'm afraid there would be some rather harsh words being said to the teacher. It certainly wouldn't happen twice, that's for sure.

I agree with vampire but got the impression that this is a supply teacher who may be out of step with school policy. Either way the headteacher has to be approached.

If this is school policy then it needs challenging. It's an appalling rule. I'm an adult but when I need to go I seriously need to go and I don't have the weaker bladder control of a small child. Also if you do it too often the bladder stops emptying itself properly and that can lead to UTIs.

Grannypiper - that is appalling, poor child. Half an hour's wait is not 'nearly breaktime', 5 minutes might be for a child with no medical issues.
After having a child in a primary school class with kidneys damaged by medication I've always been on the lenient side about visits to the loo. In that school (old Victorian (?) London 3 decker in the 1960s) she had to go down a flight of stairs and across the playground.
The best arrangement ever was in a newly built 1970s west London school. My room had loos ensuite so children could go as they wanted to. One day a worried little girl told me M was washing dolly's hair in the toilet. She was too!!

dd just said one of her friends who has a daughter in the year above dgt, rang her and she was denied by her teacher last week, and wet herself in her mums car on the way home. APPALLING, but it looks like its a school wide policy not to allow the loo in lessons.

Will let you know how dd gets on in her meeting on Monday

Yes i did, thankyou it may come in handy.

Out of interest did you read the old Gransnet thread I posted lexisgran.

There were a couple of posters who gave good advice.

how an earth she expects 6/7 to hold it for so long is beyond me. if she does not lighten up a bit their will not be a single child who has not peed themselves by the end of the year. The toilet is right outside the classroom door according to dgd.

If this has happened a second time then it needs sorting out. Children will become ill and/or have accidents which will upset them.

As a teacher you try to encourage children to go at the appropriate time but bladders are awkward organs and often make their needs known when its not playtime or lunchtime. You can't deny a child if they need to go.

The latest medical advice about bladder care says you should never go just in case (i.e. just because it is lunchtime, playtime). You should go when you need or you can cause huge problems later.

DGD has said her new teacher 'shouts a lot'.
This is a reception class teacher!