GD terrified of 11+

I think unless people are familiar with the current version of the 11+ it is pretty meaningless to discuss it in terms of the past.
Many of the children at my GD's primary school had private tutors from as early as Year 2; we know of several children who scraped in to the grammar and were then miserable in the bottom set. Anecdotally we know that the cost of uniforms and school trips is high. The secondary schools in the town are very good and regularly get children into Oxbridge and some of the Progress 8 data is better than the grammar schools.
The data at national level also shows that very few children from poorer families get into grammar schools, with a tiny percentage eligible for free school meals.
It really isn't the same as it used to be.

Where I live in Berkshire we are on the border with Buckinghamshire, and both mine attended a Bucks grammar, which was right for them. Many of my friends choose not to put their offspring through the test, and send theirs to a nearby town where there are comprehensives, as the local non-selective has a poor reputation. Doing well at a comprehensive is definitely preferable to struggling at a grammar, but if the area doesn't have comprehensives nearby, a lot will depend on the standard of the local non-selective. The non-selective I work in gets results as good as many comprehensives, despite some of the brightest pupils being 'creamed off' to the grammars.
Unfortunately there is no avoiding exams for ever. Our education system is so focused on GCSEs these days that all kids face huge pressures in secondary school. I work as a learning support assistant in a good non-selective but some of our pupils will never pass a GCSE at the equivalent of A-C despite all the support we give them, yet they still have to sit them. I personally think that is extremely destructive of their confidence as they simply learn to fail! My school do offer separate invigilation for some students who find being in the main hall for exams particularly stressful, but some schools may not be able to do that due to staffing or room availability. When the time comes it may be worth discussing that with whatever secondary school she attends. Whether or not she needs to take this exam at this stage will depend on many factors, particularly what the school options are in the area and also, very importantly, where her friends will go, as that may be particularly important to her. I think the most important thing you can say to her is that whether she passes or not, as long as she has tried her best that is all that matters, and you will be proud of her and love her just as much whatever happens.

There is no avoiding exams in Year 6. The SATs are also extremely stressful for the children. The children in my GDs town have 11+ in September of Year 6 and then SATs for all in May.
I agree that the new 1-9 GCSEs are hugely demanding. Some of the content seems more like A level to me.

There is no selection at 11 yrs in Scotland. All the children move together to the same comprehensive school for the area. Some selection based on ability happens later but all pupils are prepared for exams at 16 and 17.

I passed the 11+ 50 years ago, went to the 'grammar' school, came bottom of the class most of the time and simply gave up. I didn't get to university because by that time I though I was stupid. 50 years on I realise I am a perfectly intelligent person with twice as much common sense as my university educated husband. I reckon if I had gone to the other school I would have been near the top of the class and my self esteem would not, even now be non existent.

How sad that children are being pressured to take exams and tests!

In Finland (a country which consistently scores much higher on international scales than the UK or US) testing of children under the age of 16 is illegal. Pupils are taught in mixed ability classes and there is abundant support for those who need it.

Here exams serve 2 purposes. One is to sift out those who are supposedly not going to do so well academically - though we all know you can't really predict this at 11.

The other is - as someone alluded to - is to test the teachers so that we can have payment by results.

Finns would regard both as impractical if not immoral!

Do you have a link to prove that grannypauline?

Surely one advantage of comprehensive schools is that children can be put in sets according to their ability in different subjects?

A child who has a mathematical bent will surely be held back if put in the same class as one who really struggles with maths.

Please could you let us know how mixed ability classes work please.

There is no avoiding exams Mamie, is there.

There are exams throughout school life, culminating in A levels or perhaps B tech etc.

Employers, universities, judge students by their results along with other criteria.
It is something we do have to get used to. However, I am not sure that the 11+ is a necessary exam.

there are no grammar schools in Scotland ,you either go to a state comprehensive or a private school .Surely they should be improving the education in ALL schools instead of this system which reeks of privilege.Especially given the remark above about seeing a Grammar school on a cv making a difference.WHY aren't all children treated equally in the state sector ?

I don't think kids stress unduly over it normally- are her parents pressuring her? Is it a reaction to things at home? Given that most kids will fail this exam anyway, with only a handful getting through, it's not as if all her friends are going to succeed and she could be the only 'failure'. Exams ARE a fact of life, and she can't opt out of GCSEs etc; I think you need to try to get her to see it in context; that she only has to do her best; that few pass. I was disappointed when my eldest ended up at secondary modern, but he did OK, got to uni and has a top job (earns far more than I ever did- and I passed!) so it's no big deal!

Here is a link to a Guardian article on Finnish education:

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/jul/01/education-michael-gove-finland-gcse

There has also been fairly recent research in the UK:
www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0917/060917-Setting-BERA
If I read this correctly then mixed ability classes strongly hinder lower ability pupils while moderately helping those of higher ability. The conclusions seems to be that the latter could have been helped adequately by other strategies and the former really need to be in mixed ability classes.

Jalima No you can't avoid exams and they never worried me very much right through to post-graduate. However the new GCSEs are crazy. GD1 did one a year early, but will still have about 20 exams for the rest next May and June. She has a very good memory and has learnt to manage performance stress as a dancer, but there are lots of stories coming out of schools of children buckling under pressure.
It is very hard for less able pupils as it is all about memory and coursework has gone. If people have GDs doing GCSEs this year it may help to have a look at the content.
I know people will jump in and say "we never had coursework", but having gone through a lengthy career in a demanding profession I can honestly say that the ability to plan, write, research and present is more useful than learning it all parrot fashion.

Correction: Actually looks closer to 30 GCSE exams from mid May to Mid June.

Spot on Mamie.

I have always had a very poor memory and exams were a nightmare. Nevertheless I got A Levels and a degree, and a GCSE in Drama (for which I wasn't allowed any prompting on stage). Thankfully the degree course had an element of assignments as well as final examinations.

In my final years as Head of IT in a largish comprehensive school I would have liked a better memory but I had some tricks to keep it all OK.

And of course nowadays the internet supplies knowledge, facts, opinions etc. So what we need is skills for mining data and evaluating and using it. I waver between thinking the current exam strategy is deliberately dumbing down students or the powers that be simply don't understand this!

Yes Common Entrance is still sat at most Prep schools. Children are normally about 12 when they take it and results will count when going onto their next school at age 13.

Agree too with Beau!

As a former teacher I can’t understand why some of you are criticising the grammar school system. It is infinitely better than other secondary schools and gives children a better chance of educational success and progress than any other. Only by being educated at a really excellent grammar school will your child or grandchild be able to advance to a top university. A good secondary school won each of my sons a scholarship to a great university career!

leemw711, I'm glad you are happy with the education your children received. However, those of us whose children went to 'top universities' from true comprehensives can't let it go unchallenged.

A decent comprehensive system offers a good, well rounded education, and I count it as one of the best things in my children's lives. They're all great team players who get on well with all sorts of people, and are valued in their jobs.

I'd also like to add that success in life is not only about going to a 'top university'.

Without knowing the alternatives available to this little girl, we don't know what is best for her - and indeed OP's job is to help with offering some respite and calm, not making decisions.

leem as a former headteacher I disagree with your perspective. Whilst outcomes at grammar schools are usually academically high that is not a surprise! The children who attend have been selected based on their academic ability. If I have time I will hunt out data to show that students' progress at grammar school is often less than those at comprehensive schools, who teach all comers..most very successfully.

I am astonished at your post leemw and find it hard to believe that you were a teacher.
Only by being educated at a really excellent grammar school will your child or grandchild be able to advance to a top university
Not true

A good secondary school won each of my sons a scholarship to a great university career!
I'm sorry, but I don't understand that sentence. Are they academics?

With you Jalima.
Only by being educated at a really excellent grammar school will your child or grandchild be able to advance to a top university. Ha ha. My poor daughter must be odd then, comprehensive-educated and gained her place at the university with more A level pupils applying per place than any other!
I'm a retired teacher, and would never work in a grammar school because I went to one, and still carry the scars of being the thickest despite 2 post-graduate degrees. My sister, smarter than me, hated it, and left education altogether at 16.
Why separate children, 75% who suffer the indignity of failure (actually I think it varies in different areas, it can be between 18% to 32%, and in same area it can be different % according to gender) and those at the bottom of the grammar school who feel like failures too? Now that they don't leave education/training until 18, it's more true than ever.

Good mixed-ability teaching can enhance the experience of the most and least able in a secondary maths class. It's about in-depth learning. The most because they have be able to say why/how something works or when this is true, the least because they can hook into the trains of thought of other pupils, not just the teacher's.
Sadly as setting is so common, because of all the testing in schools, primary and secondary, and because mixed-ability requires a certain style of teaching which doesn't fit with the teaching to the test ethos we have now, it has fallen out of favour in England.

Beau
When I worked in Buckinghamshire, it was comprehensives in the north of the county, grammars and secondary moderns in the rest. Is it different now?

HM999
I could write a list of evidence to disprove leemw's post but, of course, it is all anecdotal.

Sorry to brag (I try not to but Leemw's post has made it impossible for me to ignore) - all my children went to good comprehensives, all got a clutch of grade A's at A level, 2 went to Oxbridge, the 3rd to a good redbrick where he got a First. All have masters degrees as well and my daughter now has a PhD too. They are also able to converse with people from all walks of life without being snobbish or patronising . Don't tell me they could have done better at a grammar school. I went to a grammar school back in the day and the teaching was rubbish compared with the teaching I have observed in comprehensives where I have worked.
Sorry. Rant over.