GCSE State/Public Schools

The NHS is better in some areas than others though, too.

I'm thinking China, Russia. Rounding everything down didn't work too well there in those huge countries.
Dangerous to stamp out the will to strive and achieve for the benefit of one's children.
We'll never agree on this. Pointless to continue.

You insult a huge number of families in your remarks Jane10
The majority of parents want the best fot their children and do prioritise education.
What they don't all have is the myth of choice!
Choice to move to a different area, choice to only work when kids are at school, choice to buy activities and experiences that will enrich their lives, choice to go on holiday...

PECS I knew that someone would qote Cuba as an example - I was just waiting for it!

A minnow compared to some regimes.

Quote not qote
(I did get an edukashun)

Yes there is inequality here- some people will never be able to afford private education- surely then we should be calling for education to be given much higher priority by our esteemed politicians. What ever you think of Tony Blair’s legacy - his government did put a lot more cash into education, much of which has now been cut under austerity programmes. Schools are having to get rid of teaching assistants, libraries, music tuition etc all of which were built up in the recent past. It’s heartbreaking. It’s not right to argue that abolition of private schools would somehow raise standards in the state system- not without extra funding they won’t.

I will buy every life advantage for my children that the law and my income allows.

I cannot put it more bluntly than that.

In a time of rising and entrenched inequality, with the majority of predictions being that socioeconomic inequality in the UK will continue to rise over coming decades, I am not prepared to bet my children's life chances on their ability to rise in a pure meritocracy. Because the UK isn't one now, if it ever was.

I will leverage all the advantages I can for them of their being born to a particular socioeconomic class. I consider this my basic duty to them as their parent.

I fully understand by doing this there will be a consequential detrimental effect to other children with whom they will compete in the education and job markets. I don't care. Those other children are not my children. My duty is to maximise the life chances of my own children as my parents did for me.

I will stop buying advantage for my children and leveraging my social connections for their advantage just as soon as all the other parents stop doing that too.

crystaltipps were the rich, influential and vocal sections of the community made to send their children to a local state school they would no doubt lobby for better funding as it is they are quite happy to see an underfunded system because it doesn't affect them (and many of them are MPs)

muffin where do you buy your boots and elbow daggers?

I had to laugh at the comment that private schools hothouse students through public exams.
I used to wonder how the school we sent our sons to ever managed to get such excellent results when the emphasis was so much on sport. I assume the quality of teaching was high but in retrospect I feel the excellent results were more to do with expectations and discipline both within the school and at home. Behaviour was impeccable (it had to be or the child had to leave). Teachers were respected and listened to. Everyone expected to go to University and did.

We paid taxes which went towards the state educational system but never used it. If private schools didn't exist the education pot would have to stretch even further so nobody would benefit.

Elbows are naturally unusually pointy PECS

I completely agree with you about the corrosive effect of entrenching socioeconomic equality in this particular way, btw; but I do not have the hypocrisy to pretend I am not going to do it myself, because I am. It is undoubtedly not the correct choice from a societal point of view, but I am satisfied that it will confer enough advantage lifetime on my children that I am going to do it for them.

I am a bad person and accept this.

We turned down a scholarship place for DD1. She went to the local girl's state school, went to the local 6th form college and met up again with the girls from primary who had paid for their education but wanted a mixed 6th form.

Pecs you said “ please don’t tell me how tough life was for you”
Also if someone doesn’t use the state system ( in my case two places) then that means in the year of non use there is a slightly smaller class to the advantage of the children of that year) . My comment of the rebate was not literal but whether I use the state system or not my taxes pay for it. I know it’s not workable but it would have been nice to put my education tax into the NHS for example instead

Muffin I absolutely agree with you I gave every advantage I could to my children and would do it again. It does not make either of us a bad person but the best parent we can try to be

PECS you want there to be no choice for anyone? Just iron out human nature? Now that's dangerous as well as insulting!

It does not always mean other children end up in smaller classes. Our local primary school had seven teachers so all the children were in a class of children the same age (within a year). Then two children were removed to a private school.

Our Tory CC removed a teacher and all the children in the school were affected by reshuffling seven year vrouls into six classes. One of my children was in a class of 41.

At that time all the Tory councillors on the education committee sent their own children to private schools where the classes were much smaller.

"we worked very hard to pay for it and did without many things to do so, few holidays , I drove an old car, spent little on myself because my children’s education was more important to me.*

Well 1000s of people would say that! But they still would not have enough for Private Education! If we are using anecdotal evidence I did not have a car at all & we did not have holidays for years unless my parents paid! But that is not my point!,

My issue is with the whole system being set up as it is, to add advantage to those who are already advantaged.

Of course I understand the motives of those who prioritise their own children over others. I just don't agree with it!

Just “lobbying for extra funding” won’t make it happen. And not necessarily within the time frame to benefit your own offspring.

No jane10 we all have choices to make & should do. Just think education is something fundamental we are all entitled to and all should have access to similar goid educational opportunities.

But we don’t have the same opportunities for anything else in life Pecs so why should education be any different? I note as I proved that you had said life was tough in my post you chose to unpick something else I said to “prove” your point. You don’t like others to disagree with you do you?

In Finland the state schools are so good very few parents want to put their children into private schools, but then they have:

no streaming or setting - mixed ability teaching
abundant help for anyone falling behind
no OFSTED ("we trust our teachers, having trained them to MEd standard")
teacher support networks
no homework - lots of after school clubs
testing illegal before the age of 16
adequate funding

Twice I fully expect people to disagree with me. I am well used to being a minority voice! I would not post on this type of thread if I wanted eveyone to agree!

You talked of the choices you made for the advantage of your kids and the sacrifices you chose to make. My point was that 1000s lived as you did without having a choice or having the cash to spend on education.
Choice is often bandied about in educational arguments but in reality there is little choice for the vast majority of citizens. It is a myth!
Of course we all have freedom of choice to behave in certain ways, follow religion or none etc etc. and I would not ever argue with that. Contrary to what Jane10 likes to suggest I do not support dictatorships!
I do however believe in equalling out life chances for young people and not maintaining the status quo as far as private and state education goes.

PECS! You ask why my son thinks his local state schools are not good enough for his children, but good enough for other children.

He does not think that, and I didn’t say he did. He thinks they are not good enough for anyone’s children. I agree.

Oh, if only all schools were good! That would certainly be the ideal. Unfortunately they aren’t. If only there was enough money to finance all schools well, pay and train all teachers properly. If only everybody thought education was the most valuable thing we have, and treated it, and those who purvey it, with the respect they deserve. Then we could begin to educate ALL our young properly. At the moment this is just not happening. Sad, but true.

Do you expect my son to send his children to an inadequate school just to prove a point? That would be irresponsible. He can (just) afford to pay. Moving to a London area with a good state school would be more expensive than paying fees.

TwiceasNice, not every naturally bright child has a hard working and dutiful parent like yourself. For those left behind children it's important that they not be labelled failures because they had no choice but to go to a not very good state school.

Of course state schools should be as well staffed as 'public' schools and state schools should be funded from taxes so that they are well staffed to offer proper levels of teaching and breadth of curriculum.

At present state schools are suffering not only from lack of funds from taxes, but also from imbalace of intake from disadvantaged parents as against intake from parents such as yourself who value education and can provide such as space to do homework and so on.

Perhaps if private schools were expected to fully fund the costs of training their own teachers, had their charitable status removed and were made to pay VAT on their fees we might be talking about a completely independent system. But let's face facts these institutions, many of which were established to provide education to the underprivileged are in fact subsidised by us all.
As for how soon the funding would be made available as around a third of MPs attended private schools one can assume they will send their children to one. Add a few who will choose to do so and many who recognise education is underfunded and you have a majority who would fast track funding through the House if they felt their children might benefit from it.