GCSE State/Public Schools

Threads like this run and run......those of us who believe in personal choice on how people spend money and those who would like more or less everything to be State chosen.
Neither will convince the other.
Can’t see private schools being phased out anytime soon, even under (God help us) a Corbyn led government.

Perhaps if private schools were expected to fully fund the costs of training their own teachers
I think that is rather a non-sequitur - all very well when there were Government grants for students, but they do have to fund themselves now except for a few.

What about the privately educated students who paid their own way through university and further courses (and still have student debt) and now work in State schools?

At that time all the Tory councillors on the education committee sent their own children to private schools where the classes were much smaller.
My goodness - do you have a link to prove that fact - it does sound rather far-fetched.

Perhaps teachers at state schools should stick by their principles and send their own children to state schools instead of to independent schools (which several teachers at my DC's schools did).

Can’t see private schools being phased out anytime soon, even under (God help us) a Corbyn led government
He does have a bee in his bonnet about private and grammar schools though lemongrove - and I sometimes wonder if he had an unhappy time at his (then) independent school and the fact that his mother taught in a grammar school which may have coloured his views.

We'll all be wearing nice uniforms if some on GN have their way, perhaps similar to a zhifu.
At least we won't have to worry what to put on in the mornings.

I rather suspect that you (*Lemongrove**Jalima*) think I may be a socialist who hopes for a dictatorship but honestly I am not! I am a socialist, no problems about that but dictatorships are not my idea of Utopia.

I do believe in levelling out the education playing field but not naïve enough to think it will ever become a bowls lawn! I would just like to reduce the height of the mountain and use it to fill up the valley a bit!

I have worked, as a teacher, in many economically poor areas. I have seen many bright and able children do really well but whose social background proved a disadvantage when put in 'competition' with more socially advantaged kids who were equally academically able. That, in my mind cannot be right. Others here appear to think that is OK.

It is my opinion that the dual education system exacerbates this disadvantage. That is why I would like to see fee paying schools brought into the state system.

I will always argue, debate and take action to improve the chances of all children & not just the ones like my own kids!

Not you PECS - I was thinking of another poster!!
perhaps I'd better not say, might get into trouble.

However, she has said that she is a proud Marxist so perhaps not.

The most useless maths teacher one of my DC had the misfortune to be taught by said quite openly that she only worked to be able to afford to send her DD to an independent school.

jamilla why would you think teachers in state schools should "stick by their principles" ? just because you work in a certain institution doesn't mean you think said institution is the best on offer. I've worked in at least two schools I wouldn't send my child to, ( didn't stay in them long), plus I've fortunately worked in some I would ( and have) sent them to. People don't just work in a certain establishment because of their principles, its called a job. Unfortunately, social inequalities don't just come down to the school available .

just because you work in a certain institution doesn't mean you think said institution is the best on offer.

Hypocritical.

Why is that "hypocritical" Jalima1108 I've worked in schools where quite honestly I wouldn't want to send any child if I had a choice about it. Quite often the school had management problems, staff retention problems and was in an area with massive social problems. My job was to teach the children as best I could under the circumstances and try to at least ensure they had some stability and education. It wasn't my job to change the management, it wasn't my job to stop staff leaving or having breakdowns and the little I could do towards helping with the social problems I did. If everyone only taught in schools they would send their own children to there would be massive numbers of underprivileged children with no education.
As for University education over a quarter of University funding comes from the government. If they charged more to those going to teach in private schools it would be fairer.

If there was only the state system and it was a good one I might have sent my children to it. However that is not the case and for good or ill I don’t think that will ever be the case. It is my opinion that as a parent I had a responsibility to do the best for MY children and that meant, for me , sending them to private school. I am not prepared to sacrifice them to principles whilst the current system exists . I cannot do anything about other people’s children I can do something about my own. My daughter has made the same decision for the same reasons

jamila Would you only accept a job at at the “best”school available? What if you just needed a job? What if the school was the only one with a vacancy in your particular role? Would you turn it down? You might try to do your small bit to improving said school but if it’s got terrible management, is in special measures, whatever, doesn’t make you a hypocrite for taking a job there. Realist would be more appropriate.

jamilla - why do you insist I want a dictatorship just because I said I'm a Marxist?

I have several times said on GN that we need more democracy - not less. I have indicated what we should demand to get it. too.

Actually I'm against uniforms too - in the last school I taught in before retirement the Deputy Head said he spent about 40% of his working week on chasing uniform infringements! On his salary that would be equal to one whole junior teacher! But that might start another discussion!!

I have had children in both State and Private schools, I defend mine and anyone's right to choose.

Is it really a choice when not everyone can afford to pay?

jamila Would you only accept a job at at the “best”school available?
I certainly would not have gone round failing my state school students in order to pick up a salary to send my DD to an independent school.

I would have done my utmost to improve standards at the school I was at and turn up to teach lessons.

It's Jalima btw

If all the privately educated children suddenly had to enter the State System, our state school system would be overwhelmed.

These parents still pay their taxes, some of which goes to the education budget so they are actually opting to pay twice.

they are actually opting to pay twice.
That logic seems to evade some people.

As teachers in the state school system, my ex and I felt strongly that our 3 children should attend the catchment area schools. To send a child to a private school while tracing in a state school seemed hypocritical.
Good enough to provide our salaries so that we could pay fees if we do chose, but not good enough to educate our own children?

It did grate with me when teacher colleagues chose fee paying schools for their kids! But I bit my tongue!

Nobody is paying twice .. if I don't own a car I still benefit from the highways! Everyone benefits from state education even if they or their kids don't use it! GG13 only a small percentage of students are in fee paying schools. If they became state schools there would be places for all!

87% of state schools are good or outstanding schools. Not bad ..but better when it is 100% .

Thank you Granny Gravy you get it exactly! Mcem did you ever consider teaching in the independent sector at all ?

Goodness, mcem it's not just me then!
A voice of reason.

Private schools benefit from charitable status, although they provide very little help to children from poor backgrounds. They use the money to subsidise the fees of parents who are in financial difficulties, for children already in the school. The fees are VAT free. When Philip Hammond proposed to impose the tax he was pressured not to do so by Tory MPs

2ce - absolutely not!
My dad was keen that his 3 girls should sit the entrance exam for the local independent school and given our 11plus results we all would have succeeded (with bursaries).
We all wanted to go to the nearby academy ( in the Scottish sense of the word!) and he accepted that. Mum had recently started teaching in the state sector and backed us.I

2 of us went on to St Andrews and 1 to Dundee university. All 3 of us had successful teaching careers and sent all 9 of our children to L.A. schools - all achieving good results and successful careers.
Why would I have chosen to teach in the independent sector?
Mind you, we might have had to think differently south of the border!