GCSE State/Public Schools

Jane 10 e.g. I choose for my child to go to a local comprehensive school.
My neighbour chooses a local grammar school.
Nobody choosesxa secondary modern.

I hated my secondary modern school. We got told every day that we would never amount to anything. I proved them wrong I am now made more qualified than any of those teachers. I got all my further education as an adult studying whilst I worked full time. It made me determined my children would not struggle so much and hopefully enjoy their education better but I also think you can educate yourself if you want it badly enough

Somebody up thread used the word 'corrosive' and I immediately thought what is corrosive is the use of class warfare and wealth that lies behind certain political aspirations .

Instead of arguing about who has what and how parents choose to educate ' THEIR ' children , nobody else's business by the way, I think the question should be ' How do some schools ACHIEVE where others FAIL '.

The standard of teaching , discipline and overall education attainment of a school relies on having a good Head Teacher who does not feel pity for his/her status as being a none 'Private/Public' school with all it's trappings and therefore according to some posters is by nature inferior .

Why is the quality of teaching, irrespective of whether it is a state or public school, never questioned ? Just because somebody was/is a teacher that does not make them good at what they do, no more than being a nurse makes he/she a good nurse etc.

There are many examples of state schools/Academies that are producing excellent results and I prefer to concentrate not on class or wealth but consider what these schools can teach others , possibly even some private schools.
-- Example.

' A state school in east London is celebrating after 41 of its students – almost all of them from minority ethnic backgrounds – secured offers to study at the universities of Oxford and Cambridge later this year.

Brampton Manor academy in Newham opened its sixth form in September 2012 with the objective of increasing progression rates to Oxbridge and other elite Russell Group universities among students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

In 2014, one student received an offer; in 2018 it was 25, of whom 20 began their studies in the autumn. This year has broken all records and hopes are high that most of those holding offers will get the required A-level grades to secure their place. Two-thirds of the students would be the first in their family to attend university and half have been in receipt of free school meals'

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/15/london-state-school-brampton-manor-41-students-offered-oxbridge-place

TwiceasNice It may not have been because you went to a secondary modern school that you were told that; I went to a girls' grammar school and we were constantly told how stupid we were. It was probably partly to stop us getting too high an opinion of our capabilities and also, I felt, that many of the mistresses just disliked exuberant youth!

Is that school one of the much-criticised Academies, PECS?

That sounds great POGS. That's the way ahead for sure!

Sorry, I meant POGS not PECS

Strangely enough, in countries where the clear decision is made to provide great education for all, including small classes and top trained teachers and facilities - very very few choose to go to Private Schools.

No chip on my shoulder- my grandchildren go to top private schools, so do all my nieces and nephews- and lots of relatives have gone to top Public Schools. Most of them agree it is totally unfair- but choose to put their kids first.

Our own kids went to the local primaries and then Comprehensives, and have done VERY well. And I chose to teach in Comprehensives - although it would have been much much easier to teach in Private schools. Just like my OH chose to be a doctor in the NHS and get rid of the private wing of the practice he joined.

As for teachers in private schools being 'better' - overall I can say 'no' categorically. All the teachers I know who taught in the private system were there for an easy life, or because they found they didn't have the discipline to cope. Some of the ones I knew we kicked out for being very poor teachers- and all ended up in private schools. There are some exceptions, but ...

As for GCSEs and course work- course work really favours kids from private schools were they attend supervised prep with all the support, advice and books/links/materials to hand - just not available in many families. And those from well educated families who have the above at home- or can afford to pay for it.

All the teachers I know who taught in the private system were there for an easy life, or because they found they didn't have the discipline to cope
That's quite a sweeping statement jura!!

One of my friends taught in both the state (comprehensive) system and in the private system - she was a dedicated and an inspirational teacher, now retired.

And judging by the results at the local private schools near us, she was not an exception.

I hope that the local comprehensive will be as good as that is where some of my DGC are headed.

One of my granddaughters is at a private school (long story).

There are five pupils in her maths class. Of course this gives an advantage compared to a class of 32 inthe local comprehensive.

Yikes! Only 5 in the Maths class - no place to hide!

I think you’ll find most of the schools with excellent results, whether state or private, select by ability in their intake including the state sixth form that Pogs cited above. Not exactly rocket science.

I went to an independent school (sort of) but had no choice.
I grew up in Hong Kong.
My schools were run by the government but were also fee paying for those who weren’t employed by the government.
They had children of all abilities but we were streamed. There was movement between the streams, if you were in B for English you may have been in D for maths.
Our classes weren’t small, usually about 30 pupils.
The parents ranged from middle class civil servants to stonkingly rich but were supportive of both us, their children and the school. They expected us to get a good education but they also expected us to behave and get on with learning.
I think supporting your child , wherever they go to school is vital and it needn’t cost a fortune to take an interest in how they are doing. Mine have done well in the state system and my niece managed to get a first at Cambridge.
It isn’t only the school that is responsible for educating your child.
It would be wonderful if every child could have the best education possible with the resources available for every school. There is a thread on here at the moment about council tax. Perhaps if we paid more the schools would be in a better state
But we don’t want that do we?

Independent schools vary a great deal.
Some are highly academic, and select pupils on that basis, while others will take anyone whose parents can afford the fees.

I suspect that some if not most of the more academic schools will opt for the harder exams. Some such schools already offer the IGCSE (more like the old O levels, i.e rather more demanding) and I have known in the past of a highly academic school opting for exam boards at both GCSE and A level, which were reputed to be harder than others.

jura

I can't help but wonder exactly what are you saying?

On one hand you say :-

" No chip on my shoulder- my grandchildren go to top private schools, so do all my nieces and nephews- and lots of relatives have gone to top Public Schools. Most of them agree it is totally unfair- but choose to put their kids first."

Then on the other hand you say :-

" As for teachers in private schools being 'better' - overall I can say 'no' categorically. All the teachers I know who taught in the private system were there for an easy life, or because they found they didn't have the discipline to cope. Some of the ones I knew we kicked out for being very poor teachers- and all ended up in private schools. There are some exceptions, but ..."

" Our own kids went to the local primaries and then Comprehensives, and have done VERY well. "
-----

Your post reads as though you are promoting local primaries and Comprehensive over private education for the standard of teaching staff but I don't think that is the case if your grandchildren , nieces and nephews etc. all go to ' top public schools '.

I am confused by your contradictions.

Should the 7% of schoolchildren who attend private schools continue to enjoy priviledge for the rest of their lives?

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/10/private-school-system-morally-rotten-moment-for-downfall-melissa-benn

Is the figure still 7%?
Given the proportionately vastly increased cost of school fees compared to 20 or 30 years ago, I'd have thought the numbers would be dropping. I've heard of a lot of private schools closing for lack of pupils.

Our dds both went to a highly academic independent school, but out of dd1's many former schoolfriends with children (they're all now early 40s) very few of their children are being privately educated. The increase in fees plus the hugely increased cost of housing, at least around here, has IMO a lot to do with it. They simply can't afford it.

The few who do attend independent schools are mostly being subsidised by grandparents.

It can only be a good thing IMO - more of the sort of parents who won't put up with poor standards will put pressure on the state system to improve.

State school students are disadvantaged in so many ways. Firstly, the academisation of schools has starved these schools of money, because profit now has to be made to pay the CEO/Executive Heads etc HUGE salaries.

No SEN provision.
Very basic, minimal admin/PPE time for teachers meaning teachers are massively over stretched/working ridiculous hours
HUGE classes.
Very few options subjects available.
No real extra curricular activities.
Behaviour is managed by expelling students

In addition UK GCSEs are MUCH harder than IGCSEs. I teach in the UK (at the moment, will go overseas again soon) but I'm an IGCSE examiner. IGCSE B = GCSE 4 (low C).