Gransnet forums


Teachers' pay rises

(36 Posts)
Luckygirl Tue 23-Jul-19 08:46:09

As a school governor I get so cross when the government take credit for a pay rise when in fact schools have to find the bulk of this from their existing stretched budgets. There is to be a 2.75% "uplift" in pay scales in September - the teachers need and deserve this, that is not under debate. But the government is only going to fund 0.75% of this - schools have to find the other 2%. Schools have already set their budgets and made their plans on the basis of these.

It sickens me that the government seeks to look good and generous when in fact it is the children who will be paying for it in reduced resources. Grrr!

SisterAct Tue 23-Jul-19 08:52:02

Totally agree and not just the children who pay. I have been a teacher at my school 18 years, full and now part-time. and I’m being made redundant last day tomorrow 😞

Luckygirl Tue 23-Jul-19 08:58:56

Oh SisterAct - I do hope you will find some compensations in your new life; I wish you well for a difficult day tomorrow.

SisterAct Tue 23-Jul-19 09:18:09

Thank you I understand why the budget cuts have made difficult decisions to be taken, but, I wouldn’t have chosen to go.

We are in an area where the PTA and parents have raised a lot of money so the children won’t loose out on resources but TA hours have been reduced.

Sadly I can’t see an end to it at the moment and many schools are in or heading to a deficit budget through no fault of their own.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 09:45:30

I read that this morning Lucky and I just felt so resigned and sad about it all. That information wasn’t in the news stories about the public sector pay rises the other day was it? Is it true for the others areas as well. Why cannot we be treated as grown ups by our politicians and given the full facts? It’s almost as if they think we are completely stupid and easily duped. Lots of people on GN have school age grandchildren - hands up those ( of whatever political persuasion) a) knew that the schools had to find 2% and b) believe the schools can find this without it impacting their gc’s education.

gillybob Tue 23-Jul-19 10:12:42

My DGS’s education has been “impacted” for almost a year now. He started year 4 in September 2018 with a teacher who went on sick leave in November of the same year. She has not been back to school since and he and his classmates have had 5/6 supply teachers. The school repeatedly told parents that they could not replace her as she was “technically still employed at the school” even though she had not been there for over 10 months . I appreciate that she may have been very poorly but that is no fault of the year 4 children who spent almost an entire year with teachers who didn’t even get to know their names . No parents evenings and no official school reports other than head teachers comments, who incidentally doesn’t know the children either as she was a stand in head and only been in the post for a couple of months. She too left in July and yet another head will start in September . It’s a complete shambles and the children are the ones who are suffering .

J52 Tue 23-Jul-19 10:20:23

Totally agree, funding has now become a desperate issue for many schools.
I don’t normally make a political comment, but the money given to the DUP for supporting the Government could have made a big difference to education (and NHS).
Are they still voting with the current Government?

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 10:31:31

Gilly if that were my GCSE’s, I’d be upset as well. Was the parent governor contacted? The sick teacher was still employed by the school, there was no technicality about it. They could only employ supply teachers - it’s a pity they couldn’t get a long term supply teacher but I bet private agencies are involved in this supply, creaming off a slice and not concerned about continuity. Without the continuity, there was going to be no satisfactory solution for the poor children. Apparently there is a real shortage of people wanting to be headteachers and who would blame them? All this means that children’s education suffers but just blaming the teachers without addressing the underlying causes seems a bit unfair to me.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 10:32:25

GCSE’s 😂? Rather gc- sorry

gillybob Tue 23-Jul-19 10:57:20

I wasn’t blaming anyone at all suziewoozie I’m just upset that my DGS and his friends were without a proper teacher for 2 months short of an entire school year . I also wonder how long a school has to employ a teacher who is not there ? It seems so unfair that their wages have to be met by the actual school preventing them from taking on a replacement .

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 11:09:34

They would not be on full pay for all that time gilly. Each case will be dealt with individually so there will be so ‘one sure fits all’. There has to be flexibility but if and when it becomes clear the teacher will not recover, then there is a procedure for retiring on ill health grounds. In the old days, local authorities used to employ supply teachers and would usually have a good list of experienced staff who for whatever reason often wanted the flexibility of supply work and some of whom would have done a long stint to cover long term sickness.

trisher Tue 23-Jul-19 12:02:34

As far as the original question goes there is no doubt that this government has presided over cuts to education in real terms that will impact for years to come, at the same time pretending they are spending more- They are of course but that's because there are more children! Spending per head has been cut!
gilly in the past I did a lot of supply work and some was long term some short. When I was there when reports were due I did them, reporting on what I had done, any achievements children had made whilst I was there and any problems I had seen. It wasn't comprehensive and I did have to miss out sections where I hadn't covered the work in question, but I felt parents were entitled to something. Teachers like anyone else can and do get long-term illnesses, providing proper cover and ensuring as little disruption as possible to the children is the responsibility of the head and governing body. It sounds as if the school has long term problems. I hope your GC has a better year next year.

Callistemon Tue 23-Jul-19 12:13:00

Welsh teachers will also receive a 2.75% increase, with new entrants getting a 5% increase.
There is discussion on just how this will be funded and the Welsh Assembly will be pressurised to fund the increase so that schools will not have to find this money from their budgets.

I hope the Assembly will do that and set an example to Westminster to do the same.

gillybob Tue 23-Jul-19 13:05:51

I think The problem with the school reports was that there was a supply changeover at the time Trisher and neither had got to know the children enough to comment. . Most of the parents agree that it has been a bit of a wasted year for those children including my DGS . Heaven help the year 5 teacher who will have a lot of catching up to do .

I think you are right that the school is having problems . It seemed to turn itself around under the last but one head, who was brought in following a scathing Ofsted report. The children all adored her and she introduced some very good ideas and practises, but she took early retirement and it’s been down hill ever since . Yet another new head starting in September whom having been chosen as a class representative, my DGS got to meet her and when the class asked what he thought he shrugged and said “she is as a very old lady” . Oh dear .

trisher Tue 23-Jul-19 13:15:59

Oh dear indeed gilly I hope she's not one of those who thinks a few years as a head will add nicely to her retirement pension! (and before anyone jumps in, it's rare but it does happen!).

SirChenjin Tue 23-Jul-19 13:21:42

13% up here and 2 extra in-service days. Meanwhile schools are having to make massive cuts across their budgets.

Understandably, it's not been well received by other public sector workers who got 9% or less, and even less so by staff in the private sector.

I look forward to seeing the resulting improvements in my child's education.

paddyann Tue 23-Jul-19 13:57:19

you'd have complained if they hadn't got a reasonable rise ,so why complain when they get one? Everyone would love a decent rise...sadly there needs to be more money coming in to pay it .Now with the predicted cuts in Barnett there will be even less to go round .

SisterAct Tue 23-Jul-19 14:11:50

A teacher off long term sick would normally get 6 months full pay and six half pay. If they are off every now and again there is a staged process which is gone through and fit to return interviews.

My colleague who was diagnosed with bone cancer and underwent gruelling treatment for 3 months was told she could not get a ‘full ill health” retirement pension as although the Doctors said she can’t be cured it was deemed as ‘not necessarily terminal’. Her union advised her to work the system, as above, and try and then go for a partial ill health pension! This was after 20 years service in the same school and only 8 days off sick in all that time.

She worried all through this about her class and the guilt she felt for them. The school were advised by HR and as in my case the individual is not recognised, we have all become a number!!! and how much we will cost the school.

The majority of us went into teaching to do our best for the next generation and I hope the powers that be will do something about the cuts to budgets

SirChenjin Tue 23-Jul-19 14:14:57

you'd have complained if they hadn't got a reasonable rise ,so why complain when they get one?

No I wouldn't. 9% in line with other public sector workers like myself would have been perfectly reasonable. The predicted changes will be offset by the tax rates set by the SG as per their wish.

SirChenjin Tue 23-Jul-19 14:16:04

...Perfectly reasonable esp when schools are struggling to pay for the basics like paper towels.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 14:34:17

Sister - it depends on length of service - teachers build up to the entitlement you quote. I think how ill heath retirement is dealt with varies enormously.

Callistemon Tue 23-Jul-19 14:39:10

my DGS got to meet her and when the class asked what he thought he shrugged and said “she is as a very old lady”
Sorry, gillybob, but I laughed and laughed when I read that.
I bet she's all of 50!

Callistemon Tue 23-Jul-19 14:41:38

If it's any consolation, now I think about it, Y6 was a disaster for my DD with their teacher being off on permanent sick leave, a supply teacher who had holidays booked, another one who was absolutely lovely but hopeless and DD herself having to have time off. Nevertheless, they all came through it OK and it all seems a long time ago now.
It is a worry at the time though.

crystaltipps Tue 23-Jul-19 14:45:40

The whole issue of the pension cap has resulted in head teachers and other public sector workers on higher salaries such as hospital consultants or surgeons to take early retirement or be unable to do any extra work as they would be worse off . This has exacerbated the shortage of such key workers. Schools have has to fund extra pay rises, N.I. and employer pension contributions, whilst at the same time having a cut in funding for sixth formers and SEN, which has resulted in them having to have larger classes, fewer subjects, fewer support staff and even shorter weeks. The whole academy and free school programme introduced by Gove has also been a big hole into which the government has poured tax payers money for ideological reasons.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Jul-19 14:49:03

Crystal - the shortage of head teachers and doctors predates the changes to the pension cap although I accept that that has now exacerbated the situation.