*Need to know - Confusion in over 60s*

Sound advice , thankyou. I am waiting for the arrival of my 3year old GC . GM duty today. Will have a glass if water before she arrives !

Sorry I think that should read early dementia not alzheimers there are several types of dementia

Dehydration can cause severe symptoms including what appears to be memory problems so we should all drink more, and that includes me.
First thing to check with sudden confusion should be a urine test.

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Just what I was going to say nina.

I think aiming this at over 60s is a bit early really.

I think I have posted this before but confusion can be caused by

Pain
Infection
Nutrition
Constipation
Hydration

As well as the things mentioned by the OP.

Also TIAs and stroke.

PippaZ

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Not true. As ex NHS clinician, I can confirm that any non alcoholic liquid hydrates, also juicy fruit or liquidy food like soup or custard will assist too.
Yes I know that coffee and tea are said to be duiretic but the effect is not enough to overcome their hydrating effect. The best non alcoholic drink for anyone is the one that they will drink in sufficient quantity.
If the person on R4 specifically ruled out all watery drinks except actual water then this needs challenging.
One cause of limiting fluid that hasn't been mentioned in "good to know" is a concern about incontinence or needing to use the loo during the night. This can be exacerbated if the person is taking diuretics. Juggling the timing of diuretics can help, also getting proper advice about managing incontinence, but this should NEVER include limiting fluids or going the "no fluids after xxx time" route.

I learned about lack of fluids affecting older people from one of Doc Martin’s episodes. Stephanie Cole was showing symptoms of forgetfulness and lack of energy and he diagnosed lack of fluids rather than a disease.
I think it’s important to know, so thanks Esspee.

PS I am well over 60 and if anyone constantly offered me fluids I would tell them to bog off. This is good advice if you are caring for someone with any kind of cognitive problem or who is unable to get their own drinks but otherwise I would consider it rude and patronising.

I know that I tend to drink less this time of year than I do in the warmer months, and I now keep a bottle of water with me and sip it throughout the day, refilling as I go, I was told after a blood test I was dehydrated I didn’t have a clue, at first I was always in the toilet until I got used to drinking smaller amounts as at the start I was drinking it too fast, it’s not hard to do and keeps you more alert and not so tired

greenlady102

PippaZ

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Not true. As ex NHS clinician, I can confirm that any non alcoholic liquid hydrates, also juicy fruit or liquidy food like soup or custard will assist too.
Yes I know that coffee and tea are said to be duiretic but the effect is not enough to overcome their hydrating effect. The best non alcoholic drink for anyone is the one that they will drink in sufficient quantity.
If the person on R4 specifically ruled out all watery drinks except actual water then this needs challenging.
One cause of limiting fluid that hasn't been mentioned in "good to know" is a concern about incontinence or needing to use the loo during the night. This can be exacerbated if the person is taking diuretics. Juggling the timing of diuretics can help, also getting proper advice about managing incontinence, but this should NEVER include limiting fluids or going the "no fluids after xxx time" route.

This is extremely helpful and informative.

Since tea and coffee is described as (mild) diuretics in early part of your explanation, could you describe the types of diuretics that you mention later on please.

I have small hard to find veins so was told to drink water prior to a blood test. It swells the veins up a bit and does make things easier.

I think the NHS should take note of this when they schedule people for early morning procedures that involve them having no fluids from midnight the previous day, and then delaying the procedure so that the patient goes without fluids for well over twelve hours.

greenlady102

PippaZ

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Not true. As ex NHS clinician, I can confirm that any non alcoholic liquid hydrates, also juicy fruit or liquidy food like soup or custard will assist too.
Yes I know that coffee and tea are said to be duiretic but the effect is not enough to overcome their hydrating effect. The best non alcoholic drink for anyone is the one that they will drink in sufficient quantity.
If the person on R4 specifically ruled out all watery drinks except actual water then this needs challenging.
One cause of limiting fluid that hasn't been mentioned in "good to know" is a concern about incontinence or needing to use the loo during the night. This can be exacerbated if the person is taking diuretics. Juggling the timing of diuretics can help, also getting proper advice about managing incontinence, but this should NEVER include limiting fluids or going the "no fluids after xxx time" route.

You opinion Green Lady. This is the programme www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0010wl7

It's presented by Dr Michael Mosley and includes information about mild dehydration and cognative imparement which some may find interesting. It's a very referenced programme and dispels some myths. He consults Stuart Galloway, who is Professor of Exercise Physiology at Stirling University.

I agree that rehydration doesn't necessarily have to be from water. The point of the programmes however is the simplicity of suggesting "Just one thing" you can do daily that will help you. Obviously, you can have other sources of rehydration but this is talking about making these things easy - so it suggests a glass of water (and only water) with each meal.

Greyduster

I think the NHS should take note of this when they schedule people for early morning procedures that involve them having no fluids from midnight the previous day, and then delaying the procedure so that the patient goes without fluids for well over twelve hours.

That’s a really important point! Having been in that situation, being allowed ice chips simply wasn’t enough.

You opinion Your opinion

Greyduster

I think the NHS should take note of this when they schedule people for early morning procedures that involve them having no fluids from midnight the previous day, and then delaying the procedure so that the patient goes without fluids for well over twelve hours.

I suppose it depends whether it is for the convenience of the staff or if the patient could have a worse outcome if they are hydrated.

I have no idea why it's done and we do all just accept it, don't we.

PippaZ

Greyduster

I think the NHS should take note of this when they schedule people for early morning procedures that involve them having no fluids from midnight the previous day, and then delaying the procedure so that the patient goes without fluids for well over twelve hours.

I suppose it depends whether it is for the convenience of the staff or if the patient could have a worse outcome if they are hydrated.

I have no idea why it's done and we do all just accept it, don't we.

I thought everyone knew that it is so there is less possibility of you vomitting during the procedure which is very dangerous.

All I thought when I read this thread was there's another excuse to sit and drink coffee!

As well as dehydration, it can be low sodium and/or low magnesium. I drink water throughout the day and try to drink 6/8 glasses as well as coffee ( this can add to dehydration so have extra water too). I drink bone broth when it is available.

Not caffeinated - or not too many. If you listen to the programme I linked he says that one or two cups of coffee/tea will help but then the diuretic effect sets in and hydration goes into reverse (he puts it better than I do, of course )

VANECAM

greenlady102

PippaZ

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Not true. As ex NHS clinician, I can confirm that any non alcoholic liquid hydrates, also juicy fruit or liquidy food like soup or custard will assist too.
Yes I know that coffee and tea are said to be duiretic but the effect is not enough to overcome their hydrating effect. The best non alcoholic drink for anyone is the one that they will drink in sufficient quantity.
If the person on R4 specifically ruled out all watery drinks except actual water then this needs challenging.
One cause of limiting fluid that hasn't been mentioned in "good to know" is a concern about incontinence or needing to use the loo during the night. This can be exacerbated if the person is taking diuretics. Juggling the timing of diuretics can help, also getting proper advice about managing incontinence, but this should NEVER include limiting fluids or going the "no fluids after xxx time" route.

This is extremely helpful and informative.

Since tea and coffee is described as (mild) diuretics in early part of your explanation, could you describe the types of diuretics that you mention later on please.

sorry, I should have been clearer. people who have heart failure can be given diuretic tablets (water pills) to ease the load on the heart. The increase the amount of urine passed and an unpleasant side effect is to make people NEED to go to the loo urgently. Some people try to manage this by limiting the amount they drink or when they drink it which, as has been said, can cause problems.

PippaZ

greenlady102

PippaZ

I was listening to a recent R4 programme about the little things we can do each day to help our health. They suggested a glass of water with each meal would help. That is much easier to do and to suggest to older relatives than a certain amount. It needs to be water though, not juices, etc.

Not true. As ex NHS clinician, I can confirm that any non alcoholic liquid hydrates, also juicy fruit or liquidy food like soup or custard will assist too.
Yes I know that coffee and tea are said to be duiretic but the effect is not enough to overcome their hydrating effect. The best non alcoholic drink for anyone is the one that they will drink in sufficient quantity.
If the person on R4 specifically ruled out all watery drinks except actual water then this needs challenging.
One cause of limiting fluid that hasn't been mentioned in "good to know" is a concern about incontinence or needing to use the loo during the night. This can be exacerbated if the person is taking diuretics. Juggling the timing of diuretics can help, also getting proper advice about managing incontinence, but this should NEVER include limiting fluids or going the "no fluids after xxx time" route.

You opinion Green Lady. This is the programme www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0010wl7

It's presented by Dr Michael Mosley and includes information about mild dehydration and cognative imparement which some may find interesting. It's a very referenced programme and dispels some myths. He consults Stuart Galloway, who is Professor of Exercise Physiology at Stirling University.

I agree that rehydration doesn't necessarily have to be from water. The point of the programmes however is the simplicity of suggesting "Just one thing" you can do daily that will help you. Obviously, you can have other sources of rehydration but this is talking about making these things easy - so it suggests a glass of water (and only water) with each meal.

here's a piece based on research, not opinion, also published by the beeb. www.bbc.com/future/article/20140402-are-coffee-and-tea-dehydrating

I disagree with the "only water" thing because the best dehydration preventer is the one that people will actually drink or eat....and pub med, who are the gold standard for research, agree that tea and coffee do not contribute to dehydration....this will probably really upset him, but Michale Moseley is wrong. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19774754/

PS therefore not just my opinion!

interesting......Michael Mosely is qualified as a doctor but isn't practicing...the suggestion is that he never has but that is not clear. He is not currently registered and his speciality was psychiatry. Not someone I would take physiology advice from.

I have witnessed lack of fluids and how it can affect someone because of our elderly relatives. It’s very useful information thanks for passing it on.