So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?

What you will find when pupils reach secondary school is that some subjects have a higher priority than others because state schools (not private schools bizarrely) are graded according to something called Progress 8. Some subjects count more than others.

If a school is quite weak academically, it will push maths, English and science perhaps by having more curriculum time because they're worth more points. This means that other subjects can get pushed aside and not have enough curriculum time to be taught properly.

We are heading back to the days when elementary schools and secondary moderns concentrated on the "basics", while grammar schools, private schools and comprehensives with a high academic intake are able to offer more "liberal" subjects such as two or more foreign languages plus geography and history and maybe Latin.

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

There has been a decline in the number of children taking arts-based subjects and this looks set to continue.
www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/tate-warning-over-decline-in-arts-education/
Arts subjects are only compulsory from 5-14 and many schools strictly limit the time once the child embarks on examnation years.
As for the arts in primary education.A report from the Fabian society begins
There has been a dramatic decline in both the quantity and quality of arts education in primary schools in England. Teachers believe they do not have the resources and skills to deliver lessons con- taining art and design, music, drama and dance, and they feel that their school does not prioritise learning in these areas. This narrowing of access risks widening existing inequalities in access to the arts and limits the horizons of young people.
You can read it here fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FS-Primary-Colours-Report-WEB-FINAL.pdf
What is absolutely certain is that it won't be the children of the better off who will have access to private lessons who will suffer most.

DaisyAnne are you making the assumption that the Conservatives will form the next Government?

Or are you suggesting that this will happen even if Labour win?

My DD at her Junior school was not taught PE, no Net ball or anything like that, School didn't believe in Competitive sports. At senior School no Home Economics but could do Japanese.
My DS who is now 34 could not do History and Geography at GCSE had to choose which one , but could and did French and Spanish GCSE.

I am aware that this government's stated aims before the last election were for a "small government. That must mean the collapse of government-driven help and structure. However, it seemed to me to be beginning to bite. We have seen dentistry returning to a mainly private organisation. It looks as if the government intends to push GPs in the same direction. I wondered if the next project will be/is schools. (*DaisyAnne*)

... "small government" means "small State" and small State will do exactly what it says on the tin. This is libertarian capitalism, where the market decides - no government intervention in the economy. Right-wing libertarians see the State as a threat to liberty. And that is the government we have got. Ultimately, yes, I believe Health and Education will become commodities under this government. They are weaning us slowly - partly I suspect because many of their supporters are not the demographic that will not reap the benefits, and it takes time to withdraw the government support and infrastructure of the services it provides. It cannot overnight leave many of its citizens destitute on the street so to speak - there would be riots - so a gradual transfer to the private sector will take time.

Whether this government is under the leadership of Johnson or any other RW libertarian makes no difference. We are following the American model, with very basic State provision for the impoverished. Probably the worst affected will be those who are now 'just about managing' (Theresa May).

I believe it's on the cards and I have no doubt that this where we are heading. I will not even bother to argue the rights or wrongs because it's pointless. Those that believe people should "look after themselves and not expect the State to coddle them" will love it - unless fate places them unexpectedly in the category of those needing healthcare that they can't afford. Those who want a more equitable and egalitarian society will oppose it. But it's going to happen, and with our FPTP voting system, it won't make any difference if the majority don't support it - enough do to make it happen. And the RW media know how to manipulate our fears and insecurities.

Let's see how the "levelling up" goes for people in North and the Midlands... until it meets the antagonism of those in the more prosperous South. It can't be done on the cheap... it's all a bit indeterminate at the moment...

I'm not even bitter about it - after years of Labour infighting and some of the more bizarre attitudes of the far left (Momentum?)... it's inevitable. The middle-ground is lost, it might have been a safer place, but it's now occupied by the Left and the Right.

Maybe the thought is to make sure the basics are taught properly and sensibly (fronted adverbials anyone ? Not necessary). However that does not necessarily mean they plan to exclude history geography art science.

Anyone got a crystal ball?

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

I may be stating there obvious, but there has been a worldwide pandemic for two years which has affected both schools teaching capabilities and children mental health, have the GLA assessments taken this into account?

I am not surprised that there has been as you put it bare bone teaching to pass exams what was the alternative? I don’t think anyone would have been happy for students to have to repeat the last two years of schooling.

As we are slowly returning to normal so should education, with hopefully catch-up for those off school for whatever reason, as it was previously.

I don't think these changes are the only choice. It is always a choice. Government policy seems to be following the far-right playbook of dismantling the state just as they said they would if we voted for them. I imagine those defending this wanted that and voted for the government to get a "small state".

What I wondered was if individuals are still happy with the move in this direction.

I can only post of what I know and that is that our GC are still receiving a full and rounded education including Art, Geography, History, Drama etc..

This is from Nursery through to Yr.9 over four different schools, none of which are Private.

Perhaps this scenario is not England wide (education is devolved and not controlled by Westminster)?

I appreciate this is what you see GrannyGravy and, at the moment, I am sure this paints an accurate picture. What I am looking at is more a case of what is planned for and we will rapidly move towards.

Im just a bit puzzled, the schools including the primary schools all have science, history etc taught. The primary schools even do a second language, so I really don't understand this thread. As for contributing things to schools, I was at school in the 70s/80s, we paid a fee for Home Economics and also brought ingredients from home. So to some extent contributions have always been there. I do appreciate other people may have had a different experience to mine.

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

I may be stating there obvious, but there has been a worldwide pandemic for two years which has affected both schools teaching capabilities and children mental health, have the GLA assessments taken this into account?

I am not surprised that there has been as you put it bare bone teaching to pass exams what was the alternative? I don’t think anyone would have been happy for students to have to repeat the last two years of schooling.

As we are slowly returning to normal so should education, with hopefully catch-up for those off school for whatever reason, as it was previously.

I don't think these changes are the only choice. It is always a choice. Government policy seems to be following the far-right playbook of dismantling the state just as they said they would if we voted for them. I imagine those defending this wanted that and voted for the government to get a "small state".

What I wondered was if individuals are still happy with the move in this direction.

I can only post of what I know and that is that our GC are still receiving a full and rounded education including Art, Geography, History, Drama etc..

This is from Nursery through to Yr.9 over four different schools, none of which are Private.

Perhaps this scenario is not England wide (education is devolved and not controlled by Westminster)?

GrannyGravy13

I may be stating there obvious, but there has been a worldwide pandemic for two years which has affected both schools teaching capabilities and children mental health, have the GLA assessments taken this into account?

I am not surprised that there has been as you put it bare bone teaching to pass exams what was the alternative? I don’t think anyone would have been happy for students to have to repeat the last two years of schooling.

As we are slowly returning to normal so should education, with hopefully catch-up for those off school for whatever reason, as it was previously.

I don't think these changes are the only choice. It is always a choice. Government policy seems to be following the far-right playbook of dismantling the state just as they said they would if we voted for them. I imagine those defending this wanted that and voted for the government to get a "small state".

What I wondered was if individuals are still happy with the move in this direction.

winterwhite

I think the OP is rather cryptically written but the message seems clear to me.
Like social care, the police service and aspects of the health service, more and more burdens are being loaded onto schools with less and less cash to pay for them. We see it daily on GN, 'Why don't teachers ...', ' Why can't schools...'; Schools must...', 'Education system is failing our children...'.. Where will it end?
That's what I understood the OP to mean.

I'm sorry if it came over as cryptic - I think sleepy would be nearer the mark.

Yes, it's one more service that is depleted for the majority. And then what. It triggered an overall view of how much the structure of our society is changing. I know this is what those who voted for this government must have wanted; it was clear what the government intended if they had the power.

I just wondered, now it's becoming a reality if it's what the majority really want.

Well put, GrannyGravy. Totally agree.

I may be stating there obvious, but there has been a worldwide pandemic for two years which has affected both schools teaching capabilities and children mental health, have the GLA assessments taken this into account?

I am not surprised that there has been as you put it bare bone teaching to pass exams what was the alternative? I don’t think anyone would have been happy for students to have to repeat the last two years of schooling.

As we are slowly returning to normal so should education, with hopefully catch-up for those off school for whatever reason, as it was previously.

What about music and art? Very important.

Well most arts subjects have already disappeared from schools or been cut to the absolute minimum. It's a great pity because creative activities help thinking at all levels. There is also a huge arts industry in this country which makes money here and abroad.
But of course anything which encourages children to think has to go, because they might realise what a terrible government we have.

I think the OP is rather cryptically written but the message seems clear to me.
Like social care, the police service and aspects of the health service, more and more burdens are being loaded onto schools with less and less cash to pay for them. We see it daily on GN, 'Why don't teachers ...', ' Why can't schools...'; Schools must...', 'Education system is failing our children...'.. Where will it end?
That's what I understood the OP to mean.

I'm not aware of any plans to drop history, geography, sciences or what we called 'PE' from the curriculum and resort to teaching only the three Rs.

My great nephews and nieces are getting a good all round education, they have no money for extras and the kiddies are all doing well in all subjects, so I’m not sure where this poster lives and if it’s different there?
Their ages are between 7 and 12 so very recent schooling.

What prompted me to put the question up was something I heard on "Today" [R4] this morning. They were talking about the government telling schools to concentrate on the 3Rs. The speaker questioned if the very things that a school can offer, that disadvantaged children otherwise will not even know about, will disappear.

There is this. There have been other, less teacher orientated views, raising concern also. I won't look for those at this point as others may have seen them.

"According to two recent YouGov polls commissioned by GL Assessment, teachers and parents are becoming increasingly concerned that exam pressures are forcing schools to offer a limited, bare-bones education while prepping pupils for those exams from an increasingly young age." [source - The Headteacher]

I am aware that this government's stated aims before the last election were for a "small government. That must mean the collapse of government-driven help and structure. However, it seemed to me to be beginning to bite. We have seen dentistry returning to a mainly private organisation. It looks as if the government intends to push GPs in the same direction. I wondered if the next project will be/is schools.

Many of my friends have been paying for things recently or helping children and grandchildren, where we once would have received the care/help/general basics via a state-run organisation. It is not that we didn't know this was the government's intention. it just seems to be becoming more obvious. I wondered how it will affect our citizens if many are priced out of education and health care.

Those friends that pay up for really basic and also essential, life-saving items often say, "I know I am lucky I can afford this". They are aware that they are - at the moment. But each person will have a point where, if we have to pay for more and more basics, we will not be able to have ourselves, or give our families, what we once thought of as what our country is and how it behaves towards its people.

Sorry, I'm clueless here about this thread.

luluaugust

If only the State could get everyone to an acceptable reading, writing and arithmetic level. Surely families have always paid for "extras" gymnastics, ballet and sports of all kinds after a full day at school are not that unusual and of course those who can afford it spend a lot of money getting their children through the 11 plus.

... yes the "three 'Rs" - absolutely essential.

But what about history, geography, biology, science? You know, an all-round education?

Do we want a nation of Gradgrind's "hands", able to function in the workplace, but without knowledge of anything else?

... perhaps that's the plan. The less you know, the less you question. Heads down, do your job... and here's a bit of bread and circuses to keep you amused out of working hours. And stop you contemplating the wider world.

When I was at school, gymnastics and sport were considered to be essential to the 'healthy-body-healthy-mind' doctrine and were part of the curriculum.

Apologies, I'm just very cynical.

I also have no idea to what this refers. The 4 schools near me are attended by local school children and all the schools get great results. What a strange post.

If only the State could get everyone to an acceptable reading, writing and arithmetic level. Surely families have always paid for "extras" gymnastics, ballet and sports of all kinds after a full day at school are not that unusual and of course those who can afford it spend a lot of money getting their children through the 11 plus.