Give me a child until he is 7 . . .

Reading your post BigLouis I must have been so lucky in my parents school choice (well mum actually…. dad went along with her) as I never remember any bullying it was small by todays standards about 200 + from 4-18 and I think that was the best thing possible and it was a bit of a family thing the older kids were encouraged to look out for the younger ones It was a catholic school although I was not catholic I still meet up with up to 16 school friends up to two classes above and two below mine and at least half of us are not catholics or even church goers In fact I can only think of one that is an actual church goer
I can’t complain My mum had a poor education although she didn’t lack any brains and I think she so wanted me to have a good experience I don’t think I appreciated it at the time

Anyway I ve gone off piste yes I do think those first formative years are important in shaping children

As a secondary school teacher, I never pushed my vegetarianism, but if asked directly, I would've said I was. Ditto how my own kids came to be veggie.
I do remember Andrew in my tutor group who was veggie (1990? just before I became veggie), and as a group we discussed it.
A tougher one was hunting foxes. If a parent supported the hunt, and other kids were very opposed. It was hard for teacher to remain impartial there. Rule of thumb - families can have different viewpoints about what is acceptable and class can discuss it, until it breaks the law. (Fox-hunting wasn't against the law back in the day, but is now, and has been for years.)

Sago

St Iganatius Loyola founder of the Jesuit brotherhood was way ahead of his time when he spoke these words, the first 7 years of a child’s development are the most important.
What is a little sinister though is the fact that Loyala’s words were apparently, “ Give me the boy from the age of 7 and he’s mine for life”

Sago St Iganatius Loyola founder of the Jesuit brotherhood was way ahead of his time when he spoke these words, the first 7 years of a child’s development are the most important.

Indeed.

FTR, for many people, being vegan isn't about cows/animal cruelty, it's about health. No reason for anyone to rudely say cows are murdered

I watched 7up with interest, I think that shows how very important those first 7 years are. You could see how their lives would be and the sort of character they had. Schools should have teachers, that do not promote their own views, certainly no sex education without parental permission when young.

Although my school had the usual religious twaddle because of the 1944 Education Act it did teach me to think for myself and not to take opinions from others regardless of their status.

There's a problem in schools. There's a generation of teachers who have been trained to teach social justice as if it's the truth. I can't think of another theory or ideology that's been taught like that. Imagine the uproar if teachers started spreading evangelical Christianity to our kids? And yet, because this theory's first rule is 'be kind' it's avoiding criticism. Our kids are learning that white people are inherently powerful and historically responsible a lot of wrongs. They are taught that everyone has a gender identity, a soul that tells them how they 'fit in' with sexual stereotypes. Rather than kindness to gay kids this is likely to confuse and distract them. And maybe most importantly children are being taught that parents and family may be hostile to a child's true self. That the person you can trust is the teacher, someone you will know for a year. It's crazy.

"Imagine the uproar if teachers started spreading evangelical Christianity to our kids?"

But isn't that what happens in some religious schools? We had a poster on page one describing her catholic education?

Another interesting poster on page 1 thought that teacher might be a leftie, because they were taught abut the chartists.

I can be clear on this one - in the 1960's different exam boards had different GSE syllabus's. The board our school used had a history CSE called "Economic and social History" that teachers taught whether their view were right, left of centre. It was really a history of the Industrial Revolution in this country, a great deal about industry (ie factories instead of home industry, use child labour, how owners treated workers, actual how steam machines were developed, etc) and banking development, the history of getting the vote, the history of the rise of education for all, a history of how towns grew and so on.

Not sure how it's "leftie". it was certainly practically more useful than Constitutional History.

I'm very against some centralised body prescribing detailed POV because it could be very much used to indoctrinate children at some point. whats happening in the USA scares me. Schools that teach evolution is wrong, creationism is the truth not one way of thinking.
.
Climate change is a myth as fact not a matter for discussion.

I don't believe that my early childhood education on race was neutral at all. There was an absolutely clear impression that we were "better" and had "brought wisdom" to the "natives" and our values were the only ones.

children up to 7 are not blank papers on which teachers write. they bring the values and opinions from home and good teachers described above try to gently get across the ideas that there are a variety of ways off looking at the world and they and get young ones to look at evidence suitable for that age.

Jaxjacky

Sago I though the quote was ‘..and I will show you the man’.
My brother went to a Jesuit school.

Yes. I was just about to post that.

SueDonim

Remember the furore a year or two ago when a teacher told their young class that Father Christmas isn’t real?

I’d have told my child that the teacher was probably so naughty when she was little that FC never came, so no wonder she didn’t believe in him.

That’s what I told a dd of 5, after a so-called friend told her FC wasn’t real.
Worked like a dream.

It would be more correct to say that the sentiment has been attributed to St. Ignatius of Loyola, and the Society of Jesus than to state that it stems from them.

I have not found verifable proof of the source, and in consideration of the fact that the first Jesuit schools did not admit boys under the ages of 11 and 12, and many still only accept childrel'n over these ages - St Aloyius' in Glasgow being a notable exception, it seems odd.

Certainly, impressions acquired during the first seven years of our lives tend to be important - but not exclusivily so. After all in consideration of the fact that boys were left to their womenfolk generally speaking until age 7 and only learned their fathers' type of work after that, if it were true, we would never have needed Women's Lib, would we?

As to who decides what schools teach - the simple answer is the Ministry of Education in the relevant country.

Much more complex is the fact that at least in democracies, popular opinion and attitudes influence the decisions made by the relevant ministry.

Now sex education is important - in my school days it was left entirely to the home to deal with until we were 16 and the facts of human biology were taught - far too late to be of any practicable use in preventing teenage pregnancies, as most girls of my generation had had periods since they were 12 or 13. That there were teenage pregnancies testified to the fact that not all mothers explain matters to their daughters or sons, or incalculated the moral values they held themselves.

If parents disagree with the moral and ethical teaching given to their children, they will have to do as parents always did, make sure that they have incalculated the norms they hope their children will follow.

It will in these cases be unlikely to cause lasting harm to the children that their school is teaching differing values - after all the more you realise and the earlier that views differ, the greater chance you will have of forming your own judgement at some point in your developing instead of just parroting what parents or teachers say.

Thank heavens for the different schools with different ideas we have. I’d hate to live in a nation of clones which is what state schools seem to be aiming for. I’m not Catholic, Muslim or Anglican but I am really glad these different schools exist and long may they continue.

Sparklefizz

Jaxjacky

Sago I though the quote was ‘..and I will show you the man’.
My brother went to a Jesuit school.

Yes. I was just about to post that.

It was allegedly Aristotle who said “ give me the boy…..”

Our sons were educated at a well known Jesuit school.

A well respected Jesuit priest told pupils that Loyola altered the phrase to “give me the boy from the age of 7 and he is mine for life “.

We will never know but interestingly both our sons have a strong sense of loyalty and duty to the Jesuits.

Both boys continued the tradition of writing AMDG and LDS on all their work at university!

I recently read a book that began and ended with AMDG & LDS, I googled the author who had attended the same school!