Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

The dance organisations I know are working with children but not in schools.

One of the worst acts of educational vandalism ever was to get rid of the wonderful peripatetic music service. Unforgiveable

Mamie That service gave many children the opportunity to learn an instrument which they might never have done otherwise. We did have to pay to hire them, though, and perhaps buy an instrument eventually. There was a County orchestra where pupils got together to practise and give concerts. I'm sure the service and the orchestras are still going here in Wales.

Mamie

One of the worst acts of educational vandalism ever was to get rid of the wonderful peripatetic music service. Unforgiveable. I have worked for LAs with specialist peripatetic teachers of drama, dance and MFL. There is no money for any of them now.
When I left we had a school improvement team of 36 including Inspectors and Advisory Teachers for English, Maths, Science, ICT, Music, SEN and MFL. Where are they now?

Such a shame.
Do you think it is because subjects like Art, Music, Dance are undervalued these days?

Joseanne

Class sizes of 20 in state schools would be a great start Glorianny. Plus an assistant or two per class.
But where will the money come from for additional specialist teachers to teach music, languages, dance etc? What about comparable real estate with a swimming pool, playing fields, onsite theatre or drama studio trips abroad etc? And I'm talking KS1 and KS2 here, not even secondary.

So we can't get away from the fact that parents will still want to pay because these value added extras cannot ever be offered in the state sector.

No, I'm flummoxed, really.

The school I attended has music teachers, languages and OK, not dance. There is a swimming pool, playing fields and a fully equipped theatre. The first time I went abroad was a school trip to our twin town.

There is no reason on earth that these things need not be offered to state school pupils, only the political will to make it happen. Perhaps there is a lack of money to do it nowadays, but that is the problem. We just shrug our shoulders and go "OK".

No Joseanne it is all about money. Obviously there are still qualified and trained teachers of art, music, drama in schools. The money given to LAs has been cut to the bone and school improvement services have been hugely diminished. It is a political decision.

Our local state schools all have pools (primary and senior) have music, sports school trips (abroad in senior schools) our senior schools have theatres.

Maybe we are fortunate?

Gosh yes you are very lucky GrannyGravy13, I doubt many primary schools have pools elsewhere in the UK, all our feeder schools, primary and secondary have to use the one pool at the leisure centre.

GG13 you are very fortunate
So much has gone.
And the crazy thing is the creative industry is a growth area which contributes hugely to the economy

Yes, you are lucky GG13, my young GC (6 &8) who attend a state school would love a pool like their cousins at a private school. They do get bused to the local baths, but only for a handful of weeks in the school year. The thing they are most envious of though are the llamas and sheep at their cousins' school.

I think a lot of swimming baths are closing down aren’t they?

GrannyGravy13

Our local state schools all have pools (primary and senior) have music, sports school trips (abroad in senior schools) our senior schools have theatres.

Maybe we are fortunate?

Our state comprehensives adjoin the Leisure Centres. All the children, primary and senior, have swimming lessons.

Joseanne

Yes, you are lucky GG13, my young GC (6 &8) who attend a state school would love a pool like their cousins at a private school. They do get bused to the local baths, but only for a handful of weeks in the school year. The thing they are most envious of though are the llamas and sheep at their cousins' school.

No llamas or sheep, we are fortunate other neighbouring boroughs and even the outskirts of our borough have not got the same facilities other than in the grammar schools.

The variations in schools across the U.K. is rather hit and miss, I tend to think that the intake demographic along with PTAs definitely make a difference.

I'd just like to see enough money invested in education to create state schools that have the same class sizes
As would I.
-in primaries it has been 30 per class for some time. According to the Independent, secondary class sizes have soared to 24.

and offer the same opportunities and conditions that exist in private schools

To which conditions in private schools are you referring?

Then we could see how many parents would still want to pay.

In secondary, it might make a difference-the parents might be happy not to pay, but would still choose the school by area, so once again we’d have “good schools” that everyone wants to get into, but this time, packed with former private school children.

The good news about that, is that “all state schools would offer the same opportunities”.
So even the not so popular areas would have the same facilities. Apart from playing fields etc.

You’re right about it not happening. If it hasn’t happened under any government since I started school as a pupil, it’s unlikely to happen now or in the future.

Joseanne

Yes, you are lucky GG13, my young GC (6 &8) who attend a state school would love a pool like their cousins at a private school. They do get bused to the local baths, but only for a handful of weeks in the school year. The thing they are most envious of though are the llamas and sheep at their cousins' school.

Sorry, really I'm sorry.

But the cousins' school has llamas?

I take it all back. If parents want their kids to have llamas, they need to pay for it. ?

Yes, I think there's a school up your way that has alpacas too. I never know the difference.

And did you know you can take your horse with you to Millfield Prep School,?
Sorry, I digress.

oh yes, I know very well. My niece did.

Joseanne

Yes, I think there's a school up your way that has alpacas too. I never know the difference.

Llamas are probably used as guard dogs.

Alpacas are probably shorn so school jumpers can be knitted from their wool.

Pantglas2

If it’s good enough for Diane Abbott....

So, if you are a great believer in the principles of the NHS with excellent treatment for all, but you are on a 3 year waiting list and in pain, or at risk of serious disease- do you, or do you not, seek private health care if you can afford it? Especially if it is for your child? Do you sacrifice that child for your prnciples?

Or do you pay and continue to fight so that all children get great healthcare?

and offer the same opportunities and conditions that exist in private schools

To which conditions in private schools are you referring?

Well we could begin with small things like people who have time to talk with children in small groups and share food with them. So that meal times become once again a time when children have experiences unlike their home. It could progress to outings and visits. But even just having a library space where books are freely available would make a huge difference.
And of course many fields and outdoor spaces have gone.

Fleurpepper

Pantglas2

If it’s good enough for Diane Abbott....

So, if you are a great believer in the principles of the NHS with excellent treatment for all, but you are on a 3 year waiting list and in pain, or at risk of serious disease- do you, or do you not, seek private health care if you can afford it? Especially if it is for your child? Do you sacrifice that child for your prnciples?

Or do you pay and continue to fight so that all children get great healthcare?

But if there is no alternative to state education or to the NHS what then?

Yes, fight for better public services which should aspire to be as good as the private sector.

OK Not sure I understand your first point.

So that meal times become once again a time when children have experiences unlike their home

Are you saying that children at private schools don’t experience that at home?*

Or that only state school children don’t eat together at home?

The state school where I teach has a library space, stocked with books, plus fields and outdoor spaces, so we are lucky and I agree that all schools should have that. Where will this land come from if private schools were abolished and all children must go to state schools?

Mollygo

^I'd just like to see enough money invested in education to create state schools that have the same class sizes^
As would I.
-in primaries it has been 30 per class for some time. According to the Independent, secondary class sizes have soared to 24.

and offer the same opportunities and conditions that exist in private schools

To which conditions in private schools are you referring?

Then we could see how many parents would still want to pay.

In secondary, it might make a difference-the parents might be happy not to pay, but would still choose the school by area, so once again we’d have “good schools” that everyone wants to get into, but this time, packed with former private school children.

The good news about that, is that “all state schools would offer the same opportunities”.
So even the not so popular areas would have the same facilities. Apart from playing fields etc.

You’re right about it not happening. If it hasn’t happened under any government since I started school as a pupil, it’s unlikely to happen now or in the future.

“Soared to 24” ?. I take it you meant 34.

Teachers in secondary would dream of 24 !

Lucca I simply quoted the Independent report though granted it was from 20-21

The average class size for all schools in England has increased over the past decade from 23.39 in 2010-11 to 24.54 in 2020-21, according to the analysis

The reason private schools are so successful is because, mostly, they are selective and all the children attending the school come from homes where education is valued and the parents can support learning at home and through the time they give to taking children out and about and encouraging their interests.

My children went to private secondary schools in the 1980s. The school could not have been more different DD went to a highly selective girls grammar school, the more successful its results, the more parents wanted their daughters to go there, so the better the results were, so the more competitive entry became. It was a 'virtuous' circle of more and more able girls and increasingly good results. Class sizes were around 30 and some girls lived up to 30 miles away

DS went to a rural boarding school close to home, it was small and relaxed and considered 'progressive', but, again, selective, and, again got very good results. Class size was around 30. People get too obsessed about class size.

Have a look at the best state schools, they are effectively selective. They are usually in affluent areas, and house prices in their catchment areas rise because parents want their children to go there, so a larger and larger proportion of pupils come from homes that are similar to the homes of children at private schools.

The only way state school results will be as good as private schools, is if you make them selective. Does anyone want to return to the 11+ and dividing children into sheep and goats at 11?

Most of the children at private schools, if attending state schools, would still be up in the top groups and would still be going in disproportionate numbers to the top universities and into the top professions, because they are a selected for their private school because they are among the brightest children anyway.