We have pooled thoughts on the NHS, how about education?

According to my DGC’s reports, Art and music are still taught and assessed up to the age of 14. After that they are taught if children select them as GCSE options.

I'd try to make sure schools were fit for everybody.

Radical, eh?

volver

I'd try to make sure schools were fit for everybody.

Radical, eh?

🤣🤣🤣
That’s a novel idea. Let us in on the secret of how you’d do that.

Well I would, but somebody might call me a socialist.

I prefer Scot, but that's just me.

volver

Well I would, but somebody might call me a socialist.

I prefer Scot, but that's just me.

Don’t be put off by what people might call you. Just share your ideas of how to make schools fit for everybody.
They’ll either think you’re a genius if you share your ideas and they’re are workable, or a politician, if you don’t share something workable but just talk about it.

Amazingly enough, you don't have to be an expert educationalist to understand that schools that only allow you in if you have enough money are probably not going to give the brightest kids the best start in life. Which probably means that we don't get the best society we could possibly have because we are side-lining the people who might benefit from the best education they can get.

So I don't know....

How about we stop pretending that buying an education is OK if you have the money (often called "freedom of choice" on GN) and make a political decisions to support schools properly, instead of, oh, I don't know, pretending fee paying schools are charities?

Oh OK. So a politician.

Volver this notion of buying education - does it include paying for university tuition?
I know that the Scottish government is making it harder for home grown Scottish students to have places at Scottish universities (which are excellent) because overseas students are paying higher fees. Therefore Scottish students are paying full tuition fees in England. That’s okay by you?

University tuition should be free for those who would benefit. Till the rocks melt wi' the sun.

That's it.

Perhaps you could take it up with the Scottish Parliament then?

Till the rocks melt wi’ the sun … so poetic. Bless!

How do you know I haven't?

Those that really know something about this will realise that in these circumstances, that quote isn't just from Burns.

Okay Volver and? What is the outcome of your enquiry?

You think it was an enquiry? Bless!

Volver do tell

Are you responsible for decisions of the Scottish parliament now volver? I wish I had known that

Personal attacks, again and again- because Vover does not agree with you.

Well no personal attack here. Volver and I are in complete agreement.

ronib

Well no personal attack here. Volver and I are in complete agreement.

You may think that ronib. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thanks for your support Fleurpepper

volver

Amazingly enough, you don't have to be an expert educationalist to understand that schools that only allow you in if you have enough money are probably not going to give the brightest kids the best start in life. Which probably means that we don't get the best society we could possibly have because we are side-lining the people who might benefit from the best education they can get.

So I don't know....

How about we stop pretending that buying an education is OK if you have the money (often called "freedom of choice" on GN) and make a political decisions to support schools properly, instead of, oh, I don't know, pretending fee paying schools are charities?

Most Independent schools have entrance exams at either 11 or 13, some take only the very brightest children eg St Paul's (boys and girls) Westminster, Brighton College etc. I know it's difficult to accept but some wealthy families have extremely bright children and those "very bright" children not only get an excellent academic education they also benefit from all the additional advantages that wealth brings. In England 80% of sec schools and 40+% of primaries are academies and therefore reg as charities, if you add in all the voluntary aided schools such as church schools, the special needs schools that are also registered, that's an awful lot of schools funded by the state that are benefiting from reduced business rates etc and really complicates things. This is why I think it would be better to find ways to ensure that all fee paying schools with charity status demonstrate clearly how they benefit the public. fwiw if the LP do find a way of removing charitable status, the very wealthy will just pay the extra fees , some schools will close and as most are in the home counties where this is already a shortage of school places I doubt it will do little to enhance the educational opportunities of those in the state system but I'd like to be proved wrong. I've added a link to a Sutton Trust report which I think is very interesting
www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ASSISTEDPLACESREPORT0310.pdf

"I doubt it will do (little ) much to enhance the educational opportunities of those in the state system

Good post foxie48. Actually most independent schools would be quite happy to give up their charitable status. It is a bit of pain for little benefit. You are right that reduced business rates is of far greater benefit, though that might be set to change.

foxie 48 How about extending private education to more children rather than trying to reduce numbers in the private sector? I seem to remember something called the assisted places scheme which was closed down by Tony Blair. Maybe a deal to be done ?

I don’t agree that very wealthy families necessarily have extremely bright children. Maybe more likely that children tend to follow parents into similar professions.

There’s a real conversation to be had about widening social equality if only individual bias and prejudice were set aside.

Could it be that the majority of private schools give themselves a double advantage by selecting on both income and ability? If that is the case, bringing all state schools up to the standards of the private sector would seem unachievable.

those "very bright" children not only get an excellent academic education they also benefit from all the additional advantages that wealth brings.

🤦🏼

While the bright but poor ones best just give up now and know their place.

Can you tell me Joseanne, how the private schools give themselves an advantage by selecting on income? What is it about a parent having a high income that a school might benefit from?

Bigger swimming pool?