We have pooled thoughts on the NHS, how about education?

Joseanne

volver

Serious question - why would this have to happen if charitable status was removed? They'd still be schools. Even if some of them went out of business, why would their assets have to go to other schools?

I'm not sure, who would actually own the school then?

The same people who have always owned them.

Callistemon21

Caleo

I want privately funded education of minors to be made illegal. Therefore I want considerably more than removal of charity status from private schools.

The foundation of social class upon money must be a thing of the past.

I want everyone to live in exactly the same type of house, earn exactly the same money, ride exactly the same bikes and wear exactly the same clothes.

But it ain't gonna happen

So Caleo it will be alright for them if they pay for it from their own trust fund?

I have to admit Chairman Mao suits came to mind on reading Caleo's post Callistemon. And dear Maizie says there are no extreme left wing posters on GN.

Mollygo

Norah
Loss of charity tax status won't "force" closure of fee-based schools.

Fee-based schools are benefited an estimated £3 Billion a Year by their tax exemptions. That could fall to the state schools.
It could? But would it?

Not under this government.

growstuff

Joseanne

volver

Serious question - why would this have to happen if charitable status was removed? They'd still be schools. Even if some of them went out of business, why would their assets have to go to other schools?

I'm not sure, who would actually own the school then?

The same people who have always owned them.

If they have charitable status they have to be run on a "not for profit" basis. Independent schools are generally run by a trust. Private Schools are, as indicated, privately owned and often run by the owner. I don't know, but I can't think there are many privately owned schools left. Times have changed since the days of Dame Schools or the privately owned prep school run by the owner and his dog.

I'm not sure all the contributors to this thread have move with the times though.

volver

Probably.

What about the special needs pupils whose parents don't have enough money to help them? Do we just shrug and say "Tough luck. Shouldn't be poor then"? Or expect them to rely on charity?

As I have said before only an idiot would starve their child because other people are starving. A wise person would feed his child, help the starving and bring up his child to do so too.

Mollygo

^It would be even more so if we followed another part of Finish education system where government pays students a monthly allowance of about 500 euros (2021). The carrot is almost always more successful than the stick.^
Interesting.
Which students get this award? From what age?
Is this 500€ means tested -dependent in family finance level?
What is it intended to achieve?
Students attend school consistently?
Students behave well in school making life better for conscientious students and easier for staff?
Students achieve higher marks?
Are any regulations about what the money is to be used for?
How much do you think students in the UK should receive?
How do you propose it should be organised. Would any of the questions I asked above be relevant?

Is the intention monitored to assess the value of the payment?
How would families using food banks feel about this payment?

Mollygo, what did your last servant die of? No one is stopping you doing your own research.

DaisyAnne
^ what did your last servant die of? No one is stopping you doing your own research^

Of course not, but when someone posts something as if they have expertise in the matter, why not ask them for more information. If they haven’t got the expertise . . .
It was such an interesting claim that I thought -obviously wrongly, that expertise was there, not just another throwaway comment about what another country possibly does.

DaisyAnne

volver

Probably.

What about the special needs pupils whose parents don't have enough money to help them? Do we just shrug and say "Tough luck. Shouldn't be poor then"? Or expect them to rely on charity?

As I have said before only an idiot would starve their child because other people are starving. A wise person would feed his child, help the starving and bring up his child to do so too.

And a really wise person would realise that everybody's children need to eat, not just their own. And would be trying to bring about a more equal society. Which doesn't mean we all ride the same bikes

But I guess that just makes me an idiot who lives in the past.

DaisyAnne

growstuff

Joseanne

volver

Serious question - why would this have to happen if charitable status was removed? They'd still be schools. Even if some of them went out of business, why would their assets have to go to other schools?

I'm not sure, who would actually own the school then?

The same people who have always owned them.

If they have charitable status they have to be run on a "not for profit" basis. Independent schools are generally run by a trust. Private Schools are, as indicated, privately owned and often run by the owner. I don't know, but I can't think there are many privately owned schools left. Times have changed since the days of Dame Schools or the privately owned prep school run by the owner and his dog.

I'm not sure all the contributors to this thread have move with the times though.

Spot on DaisyAnne, that is all pretty orrect. And believe it or not, my dog was part of the set up too! It is very common that the sole proprietor of a private school has their legged friend in tow. A great asset I'll have you know! 🐕

Actually there are quite a few privately owned schools in operation.

🐕
Oops I forgot the 4 legged, though I did once have a 3 legged dog in school. His forth leg was all metal but it didn't stop him jumping around with the children in the playground!

growstuff

Joseanne

Actually the thickos and dimwits are very much the ones who fare well in private education. Teaching staff are very quick to intervene and support children who struggle. A bright child will do well whatever type of school they attend, even if they were to sit in the garden shed for their lessons.

What kind of country condones buying advantage for its thickos and dimwits? Some of these thickos and dimwits take university places which could be used more productively by brighter students and some of them go on to be our leaders and owners of wealth. What kind of country doesn't want its brightest and best in charge?

Could you stop calling children "thickos and dimwits"? I certainly wouldn't send a child to a school you were in charge of. I just hope you are not a teacher.

What kind of country condones buying advantage for its thickos and dimwits?

I keep asking but no one has ever given an example. Which democratic country or countries ban fee-paying education? You want us to do something that, as far as anyone can tell me, doesn't happen in any other democratic country.

It was a joke DaisyAnne having been called a "dimwit" here on GN myself!
And it was a follow on from the "thick as mince" on this thread!

I keep asking but no one has ever given an example. Which democratic country or countries ban fee-paying education? You want us to do something that, as far as anyone can tell me, doesn't happen in any other democratic country.

And people keep telling you about Finland.

The sole proprietor does not actually have to be a teacher anyway.
The best qualification they can have is a sense of humour.

Some joke! wow.

That's me told!
Apologies if it offended.

I should not have used those words.
I should not have used those words.
I should not have used those words.
X 100

Mollygo

DaisyAnne
^ what did your last servant die of? No one is stopping you doing your own research^

Of course not, but when someone posts something as if they have expertise in the matter, why not ask them for more information. If they haven’t got the expertise . . .
It was such an interesting claim that I thought -obviously wrongly, that expertise was there, not just another throwaway comment about what another country possibly does.

Meow. Do you make your hair stand on end and hiss too?

I have never claimed to have any expertise in "Finnish education". I have been interested in it for many years as it seems to provide education adapted to the child/young person and have excellent outcomes. Do you really consider anyone who takes an interest in one area an expert?

I am not insisting everyone else likes/is interested in it or that we impose it on every child in this country. I'm just using it as a comparator. On the other hand, other posters want to inflict our sometimes very mediocre and certainly underfund system on everyone in a very undemocratic way. Turn the state system around and you won't have to ban fee-paying schools. Many will move to what should be a better offer.

You seem to be under the impression that no one else can want the best possible for all children unless they want to do it your way.

Joseanne

It was a joke DaisyAnne having been called a "dimwit" here on GN myself!
And it was a follow on from the "thick as mince" on this thread!

I'm sorry you were called anything like that but we are talking about children and young people.

Another joke, Joseanne?

Are you taking this subject of education seriously enough, do you think? A person who advocates private education because it gives unfair advantage to the "thickos and dimwits". And access to dogs, apparently....

Spot on DaisyAnne, that is all pretty orrect. And believe it or not, my dog was part of the set up too! It is very common that the sole proprietor of a private school has their legged friend in tow. A great asset I'll have you know! 🐕

We had one locally Joseanne. I am sure the lovely lab was a great ice-breaker and comforter. I don't think they are in business any longer though.

volver

Another joke, Joseanne?

Are you taking this subject of education seriously enough, do you think? A person who advocates private education because it gives unfair advantage to the "thickos and dimwits". And access to dogs, apparently....

OK I'm prepared for the pile on.
I was very wrong and when I am wrong, I the am type who will quickly admit to it.
But dogs are actually very therapeutic in schools. Correct me if I am wrong, but they do visit state schools frequently.

DaisyAnne, Meow indeed. Your response is very old cattish, and you may possibly have expertise in cat behaviour that I don’t have, and won’t ask about in case it’s just a comparator.
If you didn’t really know about the Finnish education system, why not just say so?
Your last paragraph so exactly exemplifies what your belief seems to be, that I’ll repeat it for you.
You seem to be under the impression that no one else can want the best possible for all children unless they want to do it your way

volver

^I keep asking but no one has ever given an example. Which democratic country or countries ban fee-paying education? You want us to do something that, as far as anyone can tell me, doesn't happen in any other democratic country.^

And people keep telling you about Finland.

People don't keep telling me that volver; only you have. Perhaps because they checked their facts first?

As other "people" have pointing out that there are fee-paying schools in Finland; they are not banned. They have to be not for profit, just as those claiming charitable status do in this country.