Grammar schools - 1960s/1970s

I passed the 11+ but my parents wouldnt let me go to the girls' grammar. They wanted me to go to the church school where entrance was on interview only.
I suppose it was mixed ability although we didn't know that at the time. I left, went to university and got a masters degree. Can't have been that bad. I've since taught in some excellent comprehensive schools which were far superior academically than the grammar school my step daughter attended.

DS54

My area had single sex grammar schools, mine the girls’ had 3 forms of entry 96 places per year, my husband’s had 4 forms 128 places each year.

Crikey! One heck of a lot of discrimination would have gone on there then - courtesy of those single sex schools.

If my maths is correct = they should have changed one of the boys ones to a girls one and then it would have been equal number of places for both sexes (assuming the schools were near each other that is....).

Defo I can see I was at least lucky there were only the two schools - one grammar/one secondary.

They must both have been rather big - as, when they amalgamated, the combined comprehensive was HUGE (about 2,000 pupils).

Also very lucky that the two schools were basically opposite sides of the road to each other - so it wasn't hard to combine the two physically. We just got used to walking to and fro between the two adjacent sites.

I too went to a girls only grammar school. There was one for girls only, one for boys only and one mixed in the city. There were also scholarship places available in a boy’s’ private school. My school is now a mixed comprehensive school.

This thread has started a discussion in my house. My SiL came to lunch today. She went to an Edinburgh girls' feepaying school in the days when they were still affordable. They received a Government subsidy so were Direct Grant schools. There was an entrance test and she says she passed the 11+. We both wondered if there is any record kept of anyone actually passing or failing?

I don't remember seeing any such thing. Was there? Did the primary schools keep a list? I'd like to know.

Failed 11+ and off to secondary modern school.

The grammar schools were mixed.

Girls didn’t really have a future. It was either secretarial course of factory. I took secretarial.

The raw score was standardized and those with May, June, July and August birthdays often benefited from a significant amount of marks given to their score. Sometimes you may have had a higher raw score if you were a September or October birthday but scored less after standardisation.

Calendargirl

When my daughter ‘failed’ her 11+, this was in the mid 80’s though, I was disappointed because certain boys in her year ‘passed’, and I knew she did better than them in the routine school work, weekly tests and suchlike.

However, her very wise headmaster told me that although she worked hard, was a diligent pupil, no trouble to teach, boys developed later than girls, and by the time they were in their early teens, these same boys would have matured educationally, and be much brighter, if that makes sense, than my hard working girl.

And this proved to be the case. These same boys who I had written off achieved much as they grew older.

I won a Dux medal (Scottish top of school), numbers 2 +3 were also girls, so got no prize. when no 2 was a boy, he got a runner up prize.
I won a scholarship to a convent school, but my parents decided to move, so lost out, but instead of negotiating transfer, they sent me to an experimental comp. instead of the grammar. Often you found that it was not necessarily the school, but parents who decided that the cost of uniform and extra-curricular needed for many grammars, would be better spent on brothers and girls needed cookery and needlework

A really great culture where you could be in top class for English and remedial for maths, and continuous assessment meant that late bloomers could move up. (A classmate 11+ failure went to Uni with 4 As, 2 at A* after getting help with his reading). Modern comps do not seem to run this way.

There was.only a mixed grammar school in our town, and that's where I went in 1956.
It wasn't automatic entry though, as once you'd passed the 11+, there was an interview round which was quite daunting - an interview first with the senior master and mistress, followed by an interview with the headmaster.

Had no idea if there was any boy/girl bias.

I must have somehow impressed them, and spent the next 7 years there. Loved it, as I loved learning. And it was an escape from a very strict mother... but that's another story.

I was always suspicious as 5 of us passed our 11+. The 3 boys went to the grammar school. We 2 girls went to a “technical / A stream” at a secondary modern where there was 6th form and A level provision. Surely coincidence…?
As an aside, has anyone else seen the book of 11+ papers that you can buy? . Cant remember what its called tbh but its fascinating what I must have known to actually pass in the first place. Pretty sure I wouldnt now. Still OK with English questions, still struggle with maths !

Sounds like a subject for enquiry to me that so many places had separated grammar schools. I just took it for granted that throughout my schooling there was no segregation of sexes and it carried on that way when I moved onto grammar school.

What were the excuses/reasons given for having girls grammar schools on the one hand and boys grammar schools on the other hand? Did they basically teach the same subjects in the same way and have the same expectations for both sexes?

Yep - after the school went comprehensive = there were boys in my cookery class as well and I was the only girl in the woodwork class and could have done car mechanics if I wanted to. Cue for "general" stuff and they decided to show us all a real life video of women giving birth one day - and it was duly shown to both sexes at once and I took that for granted - whilst the teachers counted out 7 pupils that reacted strongly (eg fainting) to it - 6 boys and 1 girl (no guesses for who the girl was LOL.......). I guess it was part of hammering it home to us that we were NOT "girls" - we were "people....sex irrelevant" and they found their ways to make the downsides of living a "female" lifestyle very clear to us. Hence I've been gobsmacked and angry ever since in every context if I got treated as a "woman" instead of as a "person" and hadnt realised my society was still like that and there have been "words" sometimes with offenders....

Basically - I guess I was lucky that my secondary schooling - at both points (grammar and then comprehensive) treated boys and girls absolutely equally at all points and I saw no sign of them even trying to be discriminatory. So I came out into the workforce without a thought in mind that anyone ever would try and treat me differently for being a woman - so confidently went for whatever I'd decided to go for (sex irrelevant). So the only sex discrimination I ever got anywhere was from my mother - but not from my father (who never forgot he hadnt been allowed to take up a scholarship he'd won and continue his education after 14 - because he came from a large poor family).

There were single-sex boys’ and girls’ grammar schools and the one mixed, which is where I went. I would have liked to go to the girls’ school as I knew one girl going there, but it was further away and my father wasn’t prepared to pay for the bus fare, he already complained enough about the cost of the uniform. My older brother had gone to the boys’ grammar and hated it, but at least a friend of his went there too.

All my primary school friends promptly disassociated themselves from me and with hindsight I wish I’d gone to the secondary modern with the rest of my primary school peers. I’d have been spared the arrogance of the staff and prefects at the grammar school, the constant reminders that we were the top 5% academically and were creamed off for our outstanding ability. What rubbish. I left at 16 with seven O Levels, went straight into an office job, and I’m sure I’d have gone to technical college (now 6th form college) if I’d been at the secondary modern instead.

CariadAgain As far as I remember, all the secondary schools in my area were single-sex in the 1960s/70s.

That had me just doing a quick google to ask what the average IQ was at grammar school. The reply came back of 120 (as compared to the average IQ across everyone (of 100).

So that about matched the fact that I seem to recall it was 5% deemed to be intelligent enough to go to University - until "the gates were thrown open" and Tony Bliar (sic) decided he wanted 45% more to go as well - ie 50% in total and universities basically "crashed" pretty much from then onwards....

My single-sex school didn't teach any non-academic subjects. The curriculum was exactly the same as the equivalent boys' school and we were expected to achieve as highly as the boys did. Nearly everybody went on to university, although we were constantly being reminded that there were far fewer places available at Oxbridge for young women than young men.

One advantage of a single sex school was that we saw females in senior management roles and it never occurred to us that we weren't good enough to aim for the top.

I have twin friends, now 80, they both sat their 11+ on the same day. One passed and went to grammar school from where he went to University and had a good career as a government advisor.

His twin went to the Secondary Modern and left at 15. He worked for a time in a lawyer office and was encouraged to ho to night school and take his law exams. This he did and eventually made it to become a successful lawyer. As it happened earning far more than his twin.

I passed the 11+ when I was 9 then 10 then finally they let me go to a grammar school at 11. Even though I passed 3 times I was told I was too young at 9 and 10. It was a girls school, highly academic and very strict. Coming also from a very strict household I didn't enjoy either but feel now that the school really gave me a head start.

Bias against the female sexbin 60s and 70s who would have thought it lol Things improved but are fast getting as bad again

Agreed Sec Mods were blackboard jungles
I passed friend didn’t
Our lives went separate ways
So wrong

You are in cloud cuckoo land
Of course grammar schools were not the be all and end all but many kids couldn’t pass the test at 11 because of its social content

Has it not occurred to you that there was more availability in the Boys schools?
Do you have figures?

Lucky but depends if you wanted university

Frogoet

You are in cloud cuckoo land
Of course grammar schools were not the be all and end all but many kids couldn’t pass the test at 11 because of its social content

many kids couldn’t pass the test at 11 because of its social content

I'm confused, what was the social content?

Cabbie21

In my time those who passed the 11+ had the choice of a mixed grammar school, a GS for boys, or two GS for girls. Bias towards girls? The Sec Mod was not bad, it was possible to take some O levels or to transfer to GS at 13.
There was also a thriving county school of music, groups being held after school and on Saturdays. I think with hindsight we were very privileged.
I was the youngest girl in my grammar school. Not yet 11. I jumped a year twice, then my form took 4 O levels in the fourth year. I’m not sure the experiment worked as it was abandoned after two years.

Similar for me but later, after c 2 + years at a distant convent school having failed my 11 plus, a new private school opened near my home town so I was sent there. Single sex. The 25th pupil …. I was a star! They jumped me a year because I was so good at the arts…and I took my literature, language and arts O levels at 15. Passing well. But the next year taking the rest… I had missed a year of vital lessons in Chemistry, Biology etc and failed them all miserably. What a stupid thing to do to a child in my view. Later in my 20s I did an Honours BA and passed with an upper 2 ! But I will never get back my missed year!

Allira

Frogoet

You are in cloud cuckoo land
Of course grammar schools were not the be all and end all but many kids couldn’t pass the test at 11 because of its social content

many kids couldn’t pass the test at 11 because of its social content

I'm confused, what was the social content?

I remember a test I had to administer once in school.

It was something like

I put up my umbrella when it started to ……….

Then there were, I think 6 or 7 multiple choice words and they had to ring the correct one.

It was unfortunate that one of the choices was the word “bucket”.