The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

Smileless - I have the letter my DM wrote to my DGM telling her she was married with DC and giving her address, this was around 1957 so a long no contact period from joining up in 1942. They were always in touch after that. They lived too far apart for frequent meetings. I don't know exactly what caused the split but I know my DM had a difficult childhood.

Nobodys perfect.
An echo chamber that tells you that fault always lies elsewhere is unhealthy.
I dont know any good parents who think theyre faultless, the good'uns are usually actually self critical in a reflective proactive way!

The whole PREMISE on certain corners of GN of assigning fault in order to deflect it is unhealthy and actually childish.

Whose wrong and who did it first is not the way that adults capable of resolution think!

Does it actually matter who is wrong?
What matters is going forward one way or another.

soontobe that sounds like a hard process.

I think people get caught in a somewhat hurt and defensive loop and then fail to see that their defensive behaviour is a contributing factor in peoples behaviour back towards them.

Defensive people become difficult to love, and in return become more defensive and so on...

Except has anyone said our generation is full of narcissists? These are very specific sites, not all of the internet. What I wonder is why so many of you are quick to say a DIL's perspective is "only one side of the story". You automatically assume she's leaving something out, skewing things, and being manipulative. But when a fellow gran posts on here saying something along the lines of "I'm a perfect grandma and have never done anything wrong. My son just said he hates me out of nowhere, he must be brainwashed by his evil, stupid wife." And she is instantly believed and given endless sympathy. I know a one-sided story when I read it, and many of them here are one-sided. I've browsed some DIL sites and when I disagree with their behavior, I find that a lot of their peers are commenting with disagreement as well! I have also read many times where they admit their own faults and mistakes. I do not see that on here very often. It's a red flag to who needs more work and why the majority of NC cases on here simply can't be all the work of the evil DIL who has it out for you, the perfect gran. If you think you've done nothing wrong, then you are in denial and your denial is likely the biggest reason for NC. There are few exceptions and if you are reading this, you are likely not it.

Soontobegran

Yes, indeed. Another example:

TRIGGER

GFIL molested his own daughter over the course of several years.

END TRIGGER

FIL thought nothing of taking his children down to visit his parents, despite the fact that his father was emotionally and physically abusive to him (beat him with an army belt, financially abused him, went into a towering rage the minute anyone interrupted his footie - including throwing a fit right in front of the grandchildren, etc.). MIL ensured the kids were never alone with GFIL. FIL's excuse was, "Well, I never saw that side of him". It frustrates Hubby no end when we hear all about "St. GFIL of blessed memory" (GFIL passed when Hubby was a teenager) knowing what the man did to his own child. FIL explains it all away by saying that GFIL was in foster care as a child and it wasn't a positive experience for him. Yes, true, but that doesn't excuse what he did to his own daughter. FIL put GFIL ahead of MIL and the kids on numerous occasions, even to the point of messing up Hubby's education (Hubby was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum and special supports were being put in place for his schooling; FIL decided that because GFIL was dying the family had to move to be with GFIL and GMIL and there were no supports available to Hubby in the new school) because FIL was the "favourite son" who said how high on the way up when his dad said "jump". At one point, GFIL and FIL owned a business together. GFIL had said he would move to the community where the business was, but then indicated he had no intention of doing so. He worked 9-5, Monday to Friday. FIL worked all hours, including weekends, and rarely saw his kids, because he was the one who lived in the city where the business was located (it was a courier delivery service). Yet he thought this was somehow "normal".

After we married, we visited GMIL. We later learned that she had told everyone that I wasn't very pretty and didn't wear makeup and Hubby could have done better - this after Hubby had gone through a painful and difficult divorce because his first wife left him. Needless to say, we have no contact with GMIL anymore either.

@Fairydoll2030, you said, "Yes but using that logic, does it mean if my generation is full of narcs and toxic people, can we can absolve ourselves from responsibility and blame our parents. How far back can it go?"

Thats kinda my point...it doesn't do any good to keep pointing at others and finding fault...we can only control what we do, how we react and how we paint our kids who maybe doing hurtful things to us for a season (Im going to call NC that, because I think it sounds hopeful).

If we want to have the hope of them returning, but also find the freedom to live victoriously through this, we have to stop blaming or finding fault and work on us.

I wasn't a safe place for my son to come to about certain issues in his life...he couldn't trust me...ouch! That stunk! He didn't tell me that though...I had to come to it on my own, doing my own soul searching, and giving him the space he needed as well. I then had to make the choice to stop beating myself up for failing him (NOT easy! Oh man! What a messy process!) in that area and learn how to do better by him when he returned. I also watched a girlfriend trash her NC daughter to everyone they knew, and even didn't know that well, instead of protecting her reputation, by just being quiet, and trying to understand what could be learned from the process...and the daughter almost can't return now...there is less safety for her now then there was before she left. Its heartbreaking... for both parties

But, then again, narcissism and toxicity surely exists amongst this current generation, doesn’t it? It can’t be almost exclusive to GP’s as we are sometimes led to believe.

So does that mean you DO agree with me that people have been falling out forever? in all generations? and theres nothing new about this?

Or not?

because if not, it seems like you disagree with whover posted last (unless theyre a part of your echo chamber) to the point of contradicting yourself.

It seems difficult for members of a certain other thread to engage not only with opposing views, but also moderate and neutral ones (and even posters AGREEING with them if they dont immediately identify them as a teamie!).

Echo chambers and insular thinking, like family rifts, are not a new thing caused by some millenium trend!

(p.s. Im not a millenium! Had I made that clear earlier in my postings would they have been so defensively missread/missinterpreted???.....)

Fairydoll I'm trying to watch 'Woman in White'.

Im not but I am of grandparent age and have school friends with grandchildren.

Odd though that sometimes only one child in a family will complain of parental abuse and accuse parents of being narcissistic, while their siblings don’t believe them to be so.
Perception is everything.....

Not odd at all unless you assume all siblings have the same experience of their parents. Which isnt usually the case.

Good parents will treat their children differently (but equally) in that each child is different and will have different interests & needs, so each childs experiencs of the same family will be different.

I had one very driven extroverted child who did a tonne of extra curriculum activites, and another sensitive homebody introverted type who prefered not to. So they didnt have the SAME upbringing

The only type of parents I can think of who parent all children exactly the same are brutal dictator types.

In more disfuntional families, siblings often learn to distance themselves from the most ill treated child as a self preservation mechanism, and this behaviour can persevere into adulthood.

Playing siblings against each other so they compete for parents affection also happens in some less happy homes too..again persevering into adult dynamics

Yes but using that logic, does it mean if my generation is full of narcs and toxic people, can we can absolve ourselves from responsibility and blame our parents. How far back can it go?

Millionaire is too interesting and this subject is getting too involved, so I will bid you all adeiu....till next time.

We are responsible for the way our children have been raised. We are not responsible for the way their partners were.

No I don't Soontobe, do you?

As you say Fairydoll "perception is everything".

It's an awful pit to find yourself in isn't it Luckylegs and such a blessed relief when you manage to haul your way out of it.

Think my last post but one should have been addressed to granfromdownunder

I am totally befuddled. Apologies. Trying to watch Who Wants to be a Millionaire at the same time.

To explain: in the scenario I've given (actual scenario), the two brothers were sharing a room. Scapegoat brother was working during the night and sleeping during the day. Golden child brother was allowed to be loud in the room and keep scapegoat up because scapegoat was apparently "causing problems for golden child".

To e

Fairydoll2030

The key to remember, is that there are two sides to every story. Does it sometimes happen that one child will cut out their perfectly lovely parents? Yes. It happened in my family. But the flip side is that sometimes a child cuts out his/her toxic parents but the rest of the family is not ready to do that yet, or simply does not realize there is toxicity. (A common phenomenon in narcissistic families is that one or more children becomes the "golden child", who can do no wrong, and one or more children becomes the "scapegoat" who is blamed for everything. For example, in one family, the parents forced their teenage sons to share a room and then complained that one son was being "antisocial" and creating a problem for his brother by sleeping during the day while he was working the night shift.) Naturally, in many cases the "golden child" doesn't want to disrupt the situation because he/she is (apparently) benefiting from the way things are.

Sometimes, too, what works for one person doesn't work for everyone else. One child may want to FaceTime or send pictures every day. Another child may not want to do that, but then the GP demands that pics must be sent every day. Alternatively, one child may not want pics shared on social media while another child has no problem with it. The behaviour that led to the estrangement may not have come up, because the boundaries are different. Or, in another case, the expectations for visiting, etc. may be different because of geographic differences.

As I've mentioned before, FIL is very toxic. BIL doesn't see it, likely because he's the "favourite son" and "golden child". (His wife doesn't much care for FIL but puts up with him.) BIL tries on occasion to forge a reconciliation between Hubby and FIL. He apparently doesn't realize that it's not going to work.

@Luckylegs9 I appreciate your post. Thank you for sharing.

as my name says, mine is on the way...that does not mean I don't have something credible to offer about this subject of NC with adult children.

@Fairydoll2030 "But, then again, narcissism and toxicity surely exists amongst this current generation, doesn’t it?" Who has raised this generation you speak of?

I am only asking out of interest BUT may we know if soontobe and notanan are grandparents?

Just curious...

For whatever reason someone goes no contact, it is still a life changing, big thing to do, not one taken lightly. The point is how can you reconcile, to be a family again.. You have to address how you might have inadvertently ended up where you are and do what you can to get on speaking terms again, you have to really examine how things got so bad,even if it's eating humble pie. It does take both sides getting together, if one side is not willing to, I don't see what you can do, but dont do as I did, blaming myself for everything, so for a long time I was in this pit of despair, it can become a habit, I realised that and then came reluctant acceptance that I wouldn't let the rest of my life to be blighted by it. It is very easy to judge someone by not knowing the facts, so better not to.

@Smileless2012, how interesting that you keep insisting my motive and refuse to take it as I (the one who said it) tell you that I intended it...very very interesting. Do you always know the mind and intent of others?

Absolutely not notanan. If you have followed my posts (and I recall some ‘interaction’ with you some time ago) you will be fully aware of that.

But, then again, narcissism and toxicity surely exists amongst this current generation, doesn’t it? It can’t be almost exclusive to GP’s as we are sometimes led to believe.
I think if an AC has been controlled and manipulated by their parents they would be justified in going NC. Odd though that sometimes only one child in a family will complain of parental abuse and accuse parents of being narcissistic, while their siblings don’t believe them to be so.
Perception is everything.....

The wording "as if" is implying that my response to your post was made because your "success" burned my skin and insulted me.

It was a personal insult no matter how hard you try not to make it one Soontobe.

Well if you really don't know what's wrong by referring to an adults son mother as his mummy notanan I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you.

Smileless2012 yes, it was an illustration. I said my posts/story were treated as if it burns your skin and insults you

The wording "as if" is making an illustration...specifically, IIRC a simile, and is NOT a personal attack, no matter how hard you try to make it one.

"Your son doesn't need his mummy anymore" well that says it all doesn't it.

whats wrong with that sentiment exactly?

Love is when you WANT to be around someone, even when you dont NEED to be.

Disabilities excepted, your adult children should not NEED you, but hopefully, they will still want you.