The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

Violet I think you have misunderstood Madgrans post. It seems to me she was agreeing with you that your mother-in-law’s behaviour was “unacceptable and ridiculous”. Madgran is always scrupulously fair in my opinion.

Violetfloss I have only just seen this and I am so sorry if I have caused you upset ….Irishrose is absolutely right, I was agreeing with you that your MILs behaviour was unacceptable and ridiculous and I am so sorry that you are in that position as are so many others either CO or fearing CO. {flowers}

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jun/22/cut-off-contact-mother-worry-about-sister

Thanks for the link oldbatty; an interesting letter and response.

What an awful MIL you have Violet - didn't read the whole thread, but I wouldn't blame you if you cut her out of your life.

I am so sorry Madgran I took that completely wrong No apology necessary, it was my fault!

Violetfloss No worries

I saw this message post and felt the necessity to advocate for those adult children who have gone no-contact for legitimate reasons.

My mother has BPD and will go into rages and be violent and unruly at times. Other times, she is overwhelmingly needy and clingy. She is the ultimate victim, yet fully capable of doing everything. She has had multiple doctors who refuse to ever see her again as she has lost her temper in their office, she has been asked never to come back to a support group for battered women (where she was going because she accused my father of abuse), my aunt had to lock herself in her room one time when she was visiting my mother because my mom went into a rage and she was terrified, she has virtually no friends because she has pushed (or scared) everyone away.

These are just a few examples of people who have gone NC with my mom because of her toxic and innapropriate behavior. So why is it that non-related adults are allowed to excuse themselves from abuse, but adult children, who were once vulnerable children enduring this abuse, are somehow obligated to the point of death to remain servile to their parents regardless of the manner in which they are treated?

There are plenty of AC who go NC for selfish reasons, but there are also those who have legitimate reasons to stay away, and yet receive nothing but judgement and scorn from others for doing so for no other reason except that they are the children. Ironically, I have relatives who have cut contact with my mom, but still judge me for going NC because I’m the daughter... as if being the daughter somehow makes any parental treatment towards them acceptable and obliges one to receive abuse.

What struck me is the OP mentioned that the child “refuses to give an explanation.” My mother has said this to me multiple times, and yet, I have multiple times given her reasons why, she just refuses to accept them, so I finally stopped playing her game and now ignore these request/accusations.

I also want to mention that going NC didn’t happen overnight and that it took a great deal of thought and discernment which included talking with multiple people, including psychologists who agreed, given my situation, that this was a necessary course of action. At first, I gave my mother boundaries... boundaries such as, “don’t call me at 1 a.m. to scream at me on the phone about how terrible my father is,” or, “please stop flooding my inbox with messages of you screaming and cursing. No one else can leave a message and my roommates also check the messages.” Or, “no, I am not quitting my job and moving to another state to move in with you simply because you are having minor surgery and have no one else around (because she isolated herself). Never once did my mother ever respect any of my boundaries. Every boundary I put up, my mother would try to tear down. So, it was finally in my mid-thirties when I gave my mother an ultimatum.. either she recognize that she has a problem and get mental help, or I would have extremely limited contact with her. She refused so I cut contact except for very limited correspondence through email.

This isn’t the case of a spoiled child expecting their parent to be perfect. My father is no saint, and yet, I still have a relationship with him because he isn’t abusive.

But posts like the OP are just one amongst many of the judgements that I have encountered over the years. “She’s still your mother...” is a good one. In a society where mothers are heralded, children are the first ones demonized if there is any discord. Much of the OP sounds like it could have been written by my mother... ‘the ever-victim who’s rotten child abandoned her with no justification.’

While I can have compassion and understanding towards my mother in her mental illness, I also have to work towards my own healing and protect myself. It also does nothing to help her by enabling her behaviors.

So just take this as food for thought the next time you hear of an AC going no contact. Before you judge remember, Personality disorders are real, NPD is real, BPD is hideous, and there are good reasons for going NC in these cases.

I completely agree with you. IME most AC don't estrange for no reason. There are exceptions but it's usually a last resort and not a decision that's made lightly.

I think people with a mentail illness like Fauntings mother, test people to the limit, it must be like living on the edge of a volcano. To go nc and live normally I can fully understand. It is hard though, if you have tried be a good and loving mom, to be eased out of your child's life, to realise you are just not wanted, their friends are the family they choose.

I would hope that any fair minded person could see the absolute need for your NC with your mother fauntine. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your own mental health.

However, there are many many other scenarios pertaining to estrangement, and the life numbing pain that it can cause. One example is a scenario that has often been caused by the introduction of a third person, into an otherwise healthy loving relationship. I know this first hand having witnessed my son being bullied by his wife, to end his relationship with his immediate family, in particular me. I am proud that he has resisted all her efforts, although the stress that has caused him has resulted on him calling time on the marriage just recently. I have seen my grandchild just once when she was eight months old and she is now five. You would be horrified at the lengths this woman has gone to in order to achieve this. Refusing to allow my son to take his daughter anywhere on his own, let alone bring her to see her granny. Think domestic violence, witnessed by the child.

I’m widowed, not in the best health following sepsis, and I live 200 miles away. I have only ever given, especially my love, which was accepted until the baby was born. In the hope of protecting my son from such viciousness, I have stepped back over the years, and accepted the situation. Despite that, the marriage is over and that saddens me most of all.

So you see everyone has a different experience. There are as many stories as there are people.

I posted on MumsNet twice about my own family, and how to cope with a mother who expects a lot but gives very little a brother who is constantly rude and puts me down repeatedly and a cousin who is thoroughly unpleasant to nearly everyone in the family. To my surprise I was advised to go no contact with all of them. I thought this was possibly too draconian so I severed all contact with my cousin and mentioned to my mother and brother that if they carried on as they were I would follow advice to do the same with them.

I'm not young but still working age (just) I have a full time job, family commitments and when I do make the effort to see my family (long drive) it would be nice if my mother made sure there was something for me to eat and didn't expect every last item when we go out to be paid for by me. To top it all she has left every last penny of her (not inconsiderable) assets to my brother who does very little for her.

There are two sides to every story and if you listened to theirs I suspect I'd be the greedy daughter who not content with having a well paid job wants an inhereitance, etc. etc.

Frankly I did the right thing with my cousin, a weight has been lifted now I no longer care what she says or does.

It seemed cruel, no matter what the difficulties were to cut contact with my mother in her 90's but once she as gone I won't see my brother again.

I nurture the relationships with my own children, and would never seek to impose my views on them.

If you read the MN threads on this topic the behaviour of the parents and Mothers in Law is generally quite bad, undermining parenting and thinking they are the centre of the universe. Going No contact is a useful way to release the pressure, to get on with your life and relieve anxiety, and to my way of thinking a useful remedy to be able to consider.

On my 5+ years here on GN fauntine it has always been acknowledged and accepted by those of us whose AC have decided to go non contact, that there are indeed situations where the AC has had no choice but to make that decision. Indeed your post is an example of such a necessity.

The OP was not posting on her own situation but the experience of a parent she encountered during her extensive research on this subject. In her opening paragraph she stated "Obviously some AC have no choice but to distance themselves from abusive parents we understand this."

There are other reasons why non contact happens; Irishrose has given an example of the introduction of a third person into a once loving and healthy relationship.

Her situation with her son's wife is almost identical to ours, the difference being that we have lost our son together with our only GC.

The effect of a destructive partner on a family should not be underestimated. Brain washing, the original subject of this thread does go on and the results are tragic and heartbreaking.

"Going No Contact is a useful way to release the pressure". Non contact, cutting out your own parents from yours and your children's lives is a huge decision PernillaVanilla.

Knowing that such a decision is viewed so casually and that you were, on mumsNet recommended to go non contact with your elderly mother goes some way IMO to explain the increasing number of parents and GP's who find themselves in this nightmare situation. This also supports the findings of the OP; "...this non contact approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives".

It's upsetting to know that the threat of non contact is used to bring some family members into line; emotional blackmail springs to mind.

agnurse I all too often find your posts on this subject confusing. Yet again you have posted that in your experience "most AC don't estrange for no reason. There are exceptions but it's usually a last resort and not a decision that's made lightly".

You are always so quick to completely agree with posters who have taken the decision to estrange a close family member without question and equally as quick to question the poster whose been CO without justification. Yet, you are a frequent poster on estrangement threads and have read the heart breaking accounts from those who have been cut out through no fault of their own.

To see a post here on GN that states that going non contact "is a useful way to release the pressure" only undermines your assertion that such a decision is not taken lightly. In some instances it clearly is.

I totally agree with you Smileless. I have often pondered why it is that those of us estranged from children and grandchildren are capable of absolute empathy and understanding, when shown examples of reasons for estrangement. The opposite seems to be true of many of those who have instigated estrangement. No matter how many heartbreaking posts they read, people like agnurse will never acknowledge the cruelty and pain inflicted, often for no other reason than control.

Whilst I again agree with all you have said to agnurse I refuse to interact with her because I feel she has her own agenda for posting. Posters in desperate need of support have been put off by her arrogant, misinformed opinions, and refusal to acknowledge anything other than those opinions.

I suppose because we've experienced the pain that being cut out without justification brings, being on the receiving end of emotional abuse, we can and do have empathy with those whose experience of emotional abuse has led them to cut out their abusers Irish.

Abuse in any form is reason for going non contact but IMO cutting out parents and parents in law because they appear to be undermining the parenting of their GC and see themselves as the centre of the universe, as PernillaVanilla has seen on mumsNet isn't.

PV "It seemed cruel, no matter what the difficulties were to cut contact with my mother in her 90's"; good for you.

I would have thought that undermining the parenting of grandchildren and seeing themselves as the centre of the universe would be a very typical situation where individuals want to go no contact with their parents. MN is full of threads where the grandparents have undermined discipline, fed inappropriate food, entered houses and rearranged furniture without consent, and been strident in their views on what their grandchildren should be named, also insisted in visiting during the "babymoon" period. That sort of behaviour is just not on.

I agree PV that the behaviour you describe is unacceptable but I don't agree that an AC cutting their parents/p's.i.l. out of their lives and their children's lives is an appropriate or acceptable response.

My m.i.l. when our boys were little undermined discipline by letting them do things she knew we wouldn't have allowed. She'd allow them to have food from time to time that we felt was inappropriate but there's no way she'd have been denied seeing her GS's.

As for entering a house without consent, well the answer to that is simple and straight forward; get your key back. I've no idea what the 'babymoon' period is but just because someone insists on visiting, doesn't mean that they should or could.

I don't doubt that the scenarios you've mentioned are regarded as justifiable reasons for going non contact, this certainly explains the huge numbers of p's/p's.i.l. who find themselves in this nightmare.

Relationships take work, love, compassion, understanding, tolerance and a desire to compromise on both sides. The willingness to cut people out of theirs and their children's lives for the reasons you have given shows IMO that those choosing to go no contact don't want to try and make the relationship work.

They see even the closest of relationships as disposable and should consider the lessons they are teaching their own children. They may one day find that they are as disposable to their own children as their parents were to them.

PernillaVanilla you have just proved my point with regard to completely ignoring the heartfelt stories of those grandparents who have never committed any of the actions you list, but nevertheless are still estranged from grandchildren, because of the controlling behaviour of one or other parent. In my own case, my daughter-in-law, who because of her unjust behaviour has lost the love of a good man. As I said previously it seems that there is no empathy or understanding towards these grandparents, whilst they themselves are more than capable of understanding when a parental boundary has been breached.

”If you read the MN threads on this topic the behaviour of the parents and Mothers in Law is generally quite bad”.

Well of course it is. How many threads are there on MN entitled ”I love my mother-in-law”

There have been quite a few actually but people do not post about families when there are no problems. Generally people post when there is a problem and advice is sought, also mumsnet can be very vocal when the op is perceived to be in the wrong

There is a massive difference between grandparents wanting to spoil the grandkids and give them inappropriate food occasionally. To constantly being undermined, belittled and criticised. The grandchildren themselves often pick up on their mother’s (generalisation) being badly treated and it’s not the parent/child bond that suffers.

Momof3.....

The grandchildren themselves often pick up on their mother's being badly treated and it's not the parent/child bond that suffers.

Can you explain this please.

And don’t you think grandchildren also pick up on their grandparents being badly treated? In my own case, my five year old granddaughter is now old enough to be questioning why she doesn’t know "daddy’s mummy" and why her mummy screams when daddy wants to take her with him, when he goes to see her. Inevitably that will affect the parent/child bond, in the same way it has affected the marriage.

I really don’t understand why some people just refuse to accept that grandparents arent always at fault.

How my heart sinks when I see posts that many AC go NC because there is a genuine reason. I agree that some with a genuine reason do and perhaps should go NC (not having experience I can't comment) but doubt that's the reason for the majority. It would be interesting to know the percentage of NC in relation to whether the AC has a partner or not and whether the no contact is with paternal or maternal GP's. I endorse where Smileless2012 and IrishRose76 are coming from. When a relationship with AC has been not just been average but good then suddenly within a year or two it has completely changed, it is heart breaking. I feel a sickness in my stomach when I get the feeling on here that I may have "asked for it" by my either over protective mothering or interfering GPing. No-one is perfect but maturity should bring an awareness of compromise. To advise people to go NC seems such a cruel and little understood response. I will never understand how someone can deliberately inflict the pain of bereavement. We all have different experiences but some of these NC situations seem just too similar to be coincidence.

Googoogool

I have actually seen both sides of it. My FIL thought it was perfectly acceptable to bring his children around his father. We heard a lot from him about "St. GFIL of blessed memory". TRIGGER St. GFIL emotionally abused his wife and children, physically abused his children, and sexually abused his own daughter for many years. END TRIGGER FIL financially abused us, body-shamed me and our impressionable young daughter, and tried to destroy our marriage. He doesn't get to see us nor will he be allowed to meet any future children we have.

On the other side of the equation, my sister and BIL are estranged from my parents. We aren't entirely sure why. My parents are fabulous and they're great to me and my siblings as well as my siblings' partners. They're not grabby and they only offer advice when it's requested. I simply choose not to get involved in the estrangement. Not my circus.

IME of the cases I've heard about, NC isn't usually established for no reason. Granted I may be somewhat biased because the forum I frequent makes it clear it's not a vent board. The advice isn't always to go NC. Sometimes it's to take other steps - put in reasonable limits (e.g. visiting in public, baby-wearing, not allow grandparents to see baby until after first shots if they refuse vaccines, not call people until you're ready to have visitors after the baby is born, etc.). NONE of these things are unreasonable boundaries. The sad reality is that some grandparents have the idea that if they don't get the grandparent experience THEY want, they might as well not see their grandchild at all. "You won't let me be in the delivery room/have alone time/do firsts/visit in the hospital/change nappies. This means you obviously don't want me to have a relationship with my grandchild!" Then the AC is put in the position of looking to be the "bad guy".