The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

I'm tempted to join and write "Oh, don't you HATE it. My kid is 30 and thinks he can have his own life. How dare he! How disrespectful. And then he brings up stuff from the past as if I'm suppose to go back and change everything. It's not my fault if I didn't know he had a broken arm for two weeks. I mean the baby whined about everything. How was I suppose to know it was broken! He doesn't even understand how upset I was about it! I mean, I had to talk to the police and everything! But does he care? No! I ask to please have only foods I like at the family holiday, but no, he has to go make other stuff that I can't eat. He'll make what I want, but then put it right next to some disgusting food I don't even know what it is. You'd think for one holiday he could just cook what I want!..... He may be 30 but he's still my child and he better remember it too!

If he thinks he can go no contact, I have news for him. I already did! His brother can take care of me. I'll just change my will!

mmm its a tough one. After a great deal of therapy I realise that what I regarded as normal was not. In the 1960's everyone hit their kids right? No they didn't. It was abuse.
Everyone was emotionally repressed and didnt allow their kids any expression of emotion?
Everyone belittled their daughter on a daily basis?

On the other hand there seems to be almost an industry built around the whole idea of narcisism. Endless experts on you tube fanning the flames. Is it helpful to constantly poke at this stuff? NC has never been an option for me.

Wow, the forum title and initial post is just meant to start a fight! It's a derisive, sneering attack piece and, in the end, only serves to further validate the position of those who would choose to to limit or terminate their contact. After reading that, I would not voluntarily choose to engage with the original writer -- would you?

I am of an older generation and I still deal with a narcissistic mother. While I always had a strong, healthy relationship with my Father, I did not have the same with my mother. It is difficult and complicated, when your mother is emotionally childlike and competitive.

My Father could acknowledge the differences in the way my mother treated us children. He called her attention to it and he, at various times, tried to make up for it. He worked to parent us equally.

So, for my Father's sake, I chose to maintain contact with my parents, and my family put in appearances for the holidays, alongside my Golden Child sister and Scapegoat brother. (Sadly, my mother repeated prior dysfunctional patterns from her family.)

When my Father became sick, I was there for him throughout his entire illness. And I determined that once he passed, I was no longer obligated to keep up the charade and was free to limit, if not outright end, contact with my mother.

I do not doubt for a minute the truth of what you say23 Jayne.

My mother has narcisstic traits and played siblings and grandkids off against each other.

There does seem to be a bit of an industry springing up about this stuff though and its not always helful

If my kids regarded me as emotionally abusive, I'd be taking a long hard, honest look at myself and booking a therapist ASAP.

The problem for many estranged parents oldbatty is that although their AC may regard their parents as emotionally abusive in order to justify cutting them out, that isn't always the case.

It takes a huge lack of empathy to go no contact with parents on the say so of a partner who has control issues. Quite often it's the case there's a situation of domestic abuse and the AC has been made to go no contact. I have experienced it with DD and it is heart breaking. We reconciled but the partner does not want her family visiting. He allows only people he can " cope with". We know he plays bad games to test patience but she is still staying in there for the sake of the children.

endrelI'm glad that you managed to reconcilebut it must be difficult if you're unable to visit.

The influence of a partner in some cases of estrangement should never be underestimated, likewise the fact that men can also be victims of abuse. The emotional abuse of a partner can be just as destructive as physical abuse.

I had 2 children. They are now in their 40's and we are estranged and have been for a while. It has taken years for the pain to lessen. I still can't sleep without seeing them and talking to them in my head, which is really nuts. But in the end, they are a different generation with more casual connections to everyone. My choice is, now that I am nearly 70, how long do I let this pain stop me from enjoying what health and life I have? Our paths have gone in different directions, there is not much time I can hope to be healthy. I'd like to be at peace and simply enjoy my husband, our home and our friends. I am working so hard, on letting go of my anger and disappointment and enjoying what I do have. I have a great doctor who has given me antidepressants which have helped. My husband is like a raging bull and life is not much fun at the moment but life is precious and I do believe that with a little thought, walking, planning and making simple changes to our lives [hard to do as he rarely goes out] we will get through this as we have every thing else in life. Life really is a never ending series of challenges which test your mettle. I'm going down fighting.

Well said Marijandel...all the best !

Both a relatives MIL and a good friends Mother fit very well into the narcissist role. The friends Mother is frankly an Evil old cow, and made my friends life very difficult. She can handle her much better now, but she still causes trouble. The MIL is fairly harmless, just self obsessed. Neither of these dear people woudl consider going No Contact. One is our age, her Mother is in her 70's, the other is only 30 and her MIL is late 40's, nearly 50.

To my mind the No Contact route is mainly (although obviously not exclusively) used by those who still haven’t grown out of toddler tantrums and wanting everything their own way. Sadly – I think it is a female trait, this psychological warfare. Wanting to be the Queen Bee and ‘killing off’ any perceived rivals. The current ‘Being Offended by Everything’ climate doesn’t help either. What happened to growing up?

We CO FIL because he body-shamed me and our impressionable young daughter, financially abused us, and tried to destroy our marriage. At what point do you say enough's enough?

" To my mind the No Contact route is mainly (although obviously not exclusively) used by those who still haven’t grown out of toddler tantrums and wanting everything their own way. Sadly – I think it is a female trait, this psychological warfare. Wanting to be the Queen Bee and ‘killing off’ any perceived rivals. The current ‘Being Offended by Everything’ climate doesn’t help either. What happened to growing up? "

Yes, they should grow up and stop getting their feelings hurt over every little offense...the adult in the generation before them, however should be able to say and do whatever they want to in their own form of "toddler tantrums" and "wanting everything their own way".
If only these terrible AC that go NC would grow up, not make waves, not say, "Ouch! Stop that! That hurts!" and when they are ignored, choose to selfishly just walk away; if they would just stop complaining and turning away from what burns them...life would be perfect and there would be no reason for that selfish no contact to take place! Why can't they see that? Why can't they see that if they'd only grow up and learn to ignore what hurts them, everything would be resolved. Then the Queen Bee of old could just keep her place.

Sigh...

Soontobegran

I agree completely. I belong to some boards where we see the other side of many of these conflicts. In many cases, the individuals involved don't want to cut off their parents or family members. It's often a last resort after everything else has failed.

I do recognize that my sample size is inherently biased. I also recognize that there are times that people go NC for their own reasons that are not always good reasons. (My sister and BIL are NC with my parents and from what I understand from my parents, I don't think it was my parents' fault. I recognize I do not have the whole story, but my other 4 siblings and I do not find my parents toxic at all. Neither do my other siblings' partners nor my husband.)

MarijandelI sincerely hope that there will come a time for you and your husband when you can be at peace.

In our experience working hard to let go of our anger and disappointment didn't really help. As time went on, as our acceptance of the loss of our son grew, our anger and disappointment diminished. Both are still there and I think probably always will be but on a daily basis neither of us are overwhelmed by them the way we used to be. Weeks, even months can go by when we're simply carrying on with our lives and our ES is not at the fore front of our minds.

Soontobe knickass did post "(although obviously not exclusively)". The section of her post that you've quoted is an excellent representation of our ES's wife.

agnurse you ask when enough is enough. For the AC whose in an abusive relationship with their parent(s) whatever form that abuse may take, when they have had enough, it's enough. And it's the same for any parent(s) being abused by their AC, with the deafening silence of non contact.

There comes a time for some, when it's no longer possible to keep on sending cards and messages of love which are met either with more silence of verbal/written hostility and abuse.

We had enough some time ago so we moved away to begin a new chapter in our lives. Not a chapter we'd ever envisaged or wanted, but we were no longer prepared to live in the loveless and unforgiving no man's land to which we'd been consigned.

Thank you Smileless2012. Obviously there are some terribly situations out there that cannot be fixed- no one is doubting that! However, we have a quick fix, walk away society. A lot of problems could be sorted out with some understanding (on both sides!). My own MIL was a nightmare when we first got together and had children. She upset me so many times and caused so much stress, but I learnt to understand her and to grow a thicker skin. I am glad I didn't deny my DC the chance to know an love her. I am sure her ears must have really burnt at times though!

...... But! She wasn't abusive, just overbearing and demanding. People should obviously walk away from abuse, but I worry that sometimes it is just unresolved differences!

knickas63

Sometimes overbearing and demanding people can become abusive or, at the least, manipulative. I have heard of grandparents who, when presented with a perfectly reasonable boundary (e.g. a limit on gifts at Christmas/birthdays, calling before coming over, not being in the delivery room) turned around and said their AC weren't allowing them to have a relationship with their grandchildren. If someone is overbearing and demanding, at the very least, they will not be getting everything they want, at least from me. If they continue to be overbearing and demanding, I will be removing myself and my family from the situation.

It's inappropriate to force another adult into a relationship with you, or to force them to allow their children to have a relationship with you. I agree that as a rule, unresolved differences should be sorted. IME, though, people usually don't go to NC as a first solution. It tends to be something that they go to after all other attempts to straighten things out have failed. I do acknowledge that I do not personally know the AC of the posters here, and that the sample I have seen from others is likely biased.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Four years ago my daughter, then 26, went No Contact.
She got engaged and within days began to ghost all her family.
Not just her parents but everyone: siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grans.
She did the occasional connect for a few months but then, almost like she had a calendar reminder, we got a Do Not Contact warning E-mail exactly 6 months from the last time we saw her, in which she threatened to call the police if we tried to see her or phone her.
In trying to understand what happened, we read all about NC, about Adult Children who become estranged, and read posts in both AC NC groups and Estranged Parent groups.
Here's what we learned: probably 95% of the posts by the AC NC group were of the nature that every generation struggles with.
As a kid, I remember my mother being frustrated with her mother's advice and criticisms …
As a young woman I in turn was frustrated with my mother's advice and criticism.
Recently I saw my uncle's widow. I hadn't seen her in years. While my cousin and I and his mom were having lunch, one of the few comments this 95-year-old woman made was to recall how critical her MIL (my grandmother) had been when she was a young bride. Ninety-five and still nursing the hurt.
So, that's human nature. Not to forget a slight. Or, perhaps, a kindness either?
100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or 25 years ago if you complained about your parents or in-laws, the person listening probably knew them.
If you complained that your mother was interfering with how you were raising your kid, your friend or cousin would say, "Oh, your mom loves you - she's just trying to help." And because your friend knew her, you kinda had to take a second look and wonder if you weren't seeing thing skewed.
Today people post in a group: "My mother is so over-bearing. She came to my house and started telling me I need to mash my kids veggies. She's constantly telling me how she did things and the implication is I'm doing things wrong. Am I wrong to not want her over?"
And then the group responds like wolves, encouraging the writer to block this monster from her family's life - that they recognize her as a toxic narcissist and encouraging the writer to be strong.
Well, that's the echo chamber my daughter joined. When anyone wavers from their resolve to go NC, they are warned of the "dangers" of contact and encouraged to resist.
What's a mother to do? Be sad, wait, hope that at some point her daughter has a change of heart.
But having been slurred as "toxic" "obsessive" "narcissistic" "violating boundaries" "shaming" etc. by group mob who knows neither person, but that pretends to provide support while destroying relationships, honestly, it's a very faint hope.

knickas63

I fear that people have started using extreme language a little too easily. The term "manipulative" is a very dangerous one. Is it "manipulative" when a parent signs a chubby kid up for a sport? Well, how about if a grandparent buys something without first consulting the parent?
A "reasonable boundary" should be that: reasonable.
Of course limiting gifts is a good idea. Calling before coming over. However - is there any flexibility? Or is it a rigid "law" which, if broken, must be punished?
For example, if a good friend happens to be in your neighborhood and drops by - would you feel your boundaries had been violated?
What about if the exact same thing happens - but it's a parent or in-law?
If the limit is "one present from each grandparent to each kid" but the grandparent is on holiday and finds something they know the grandchild would love - no leeway?
When you write "I will be removing myself and my family from the situation" that sounds very much as though you're just waiting for an opportunity to exercise that option.

When you say "It's inappropriate to force another adult into a relationship with you, or to force them to allow their children to have a relationship with you" it sounds as though you're saying that you feel families ties aren't any more important than any other relationship.

That's the thinking of so many in the Gen X and Millennial generations today: the disposability of family. And I think many relationships and ties are being jettisoned too easily.

Our children learn from what we do. The day may come when the children of those Adult Children who went NC may discover they have modeled that path for their own children.

MWald777...…..Thanks for posting there is much common sense in what you have said!

BTW Did you really mean to address the last post to Kickas63, because it more aptly fits agnurse post?

MWald to very good and informative posts.

I think that for some AC, either due to their own wishes or those of their partner, they are just looking for an excuse to go no contact.

AC who've cut out their parents, their family and are denying those family members to their children are IMO walking a dangerous path. They are as you posted, teaching their children that all relationships are transient and disposable and that also applies to their own relationships with their children.

agnurse it is just as inappropriate to force an adult and children out of a relationship. To deprive children of in many instances, half of their family.

Overbearing and demanding people are not the easiest or most pleasant people to deal with, I know from my experiences with my own m.i.l. but that's no justification for cutting some one out of your life.

This is about my experience. Not anyone else's. I understand these people come in all shapes and sizes and all walks of life. Not everyone is lovely.

My MIL went into a tantrum because we couldn't get out hospital quick enough before she started work.
It had been a few hours and we was due to get discharged at 2, buy 1:30 a midwife came to say they had lost mine and my daughter's blood work so had to do it again. Midwife had to check me off too which had not been done. No way we would be home by 2.
We then had a phone call from FIL telling us MIL was crying and heartbroken as she didn't get to see baby before work and couldn't we just leave as everything would obviously be ok..I remember just looking at my husband and saying 'I don't know what you want me to say'..He said no, obviously then FIL went on to say it just re-encorced MILs feelings of the phone call they had yesterday...which was, I was in labour and she was upset DH didn't leave me to go and see her. That she want making anytime for him and she heartbroken.
That's manipulative.

We had friends who offered to bring bread and milk, asked if we needed anything and offered to take our eldest for a few hours or take her to the park. I have countless examples of when water was thicker than blood.

'Itsounds as though you're saying that you feel families ties aren't any more important than any other relationship.'

Yes. That's exactly what I agree with too. We have friends who are more family than actual blood family.

'Our children learn from what we do. The day may come when the children of those Adult Children who went NC may discover they have modeled that path for their own children.'

Yes. We are teaching both our children that if someone is mean and nasty to you, that they keep making you sad and cry. Tell them. Give them a chance. If they carry on, you don't have to play with them. Take yourself away from the situation. That is what is taught in schools too.
If my children to decide to cut me off when they have explained to me that I'm upsetting them then it's my fault. Not theirs.

I am not a millenial or a Gen X. Whatever that is and neither is my DH.

My MIL tells people what we have done to her but fails to say what she has done to us. She doesn't tell people the full story. She misses the parts out that make her look bad. Like the time she lied about having Cancer.

She tells people DH is in a controlling marriage and I'm the reason she doesn't see her grandchildren. Lie. She says she has always had a good relationship with DH. Lie. Untill i came along
.Lie. Had the best relationship with dds. Lie. Always gave us money. Lie. She's always been supportive. Lie. Doesn't know what she's done. Lie.

Anyone would feel sorry for her hearing her story.

Violetfloss What you describe is totally unacceptable and ridiculous. As you acknowledge, everyone's story is different. There are many Parents/ ILs who have not behaved in such a way who have been CO or who fear CO or who can see it coming! It is sad and very hard to understand

It's not hard to understand at all as I've just wrote a huge piece of writing describing what it's like having a horrible person in your life, having lies spread about you and why sometimes people cut contact.
In this side it's my husband mom not an In law.

I know exactly what it's like. I've been in counselling due to my MIL as has her son. Please don't minimise our situation because it doesn't mirror other people's.

She does tell lies, she does make up things, she has spread lies, she does manipulate, she is abusive and she does tell people that it's my fault.
I imagine alot of people including grandparents have experienced the same from their children to their spouses or siblings.7