Support for all who are living with estrangement

All very good points indeed and I read them with avid interest.

I can speak only for my own case.

If my son had thrown up any of my many mistakes when parenting (mistakes which, incidentally we had discussed years before in our family open forum) I might have understood his actions.

Instead, he accused me of things I had not done - almost as if he were talking about someone else. In other words, he either made them up as a pretext for breaking contact (but why when all had been so friendly only days before?) or for some reason, he genuinely believed them.

I now feel that for whatever reason, he did genuinely believe them.

Had he not been a man who neither smoked nor drank (even during his 6 years in the Army) I may have entertained the idea of drugs. But knowing him so well, that's out of the question. He won't even take Panadol !

He has a highly successful business with government contracts, is far more intelligent than I and can pick up things, however complicated, within moments, sometimes just by observing. He was like that from a child.

There's no way of knowing for certain if the estranged is actually in a happier place after they make the break

That's what I'm banking on and what keeps me going. I will gladly forfeit contact, painful as it is, if he is happier without us (he 'divorced' his brother and to a certain extent, his daughter too)

I'm used to it now, even Mothers Day doesn't hurt because he never understood the need to mark this, or birthdays, but on his birthday each year, I shed a few tears for the good relationship I know we had for so long.

There's a lot of good advice on how to react if your AC are angry with you but as BradfordLass72 says, we can't do anything if they won't speak to us at all. He originally said he would talk it through with me when he had got his head straight but instead just continued the NC, apparently getting increasingly angry but telling me nothing.
I did write a letter. some time ago, saying I knew I'd made mistakes and however I had hurt him I was sorry, but after lying about getting the letter he told our DD, 'I don't believe her, it's all lies'. So all I can do is try and get through grieving while carrying a tiny hope, but golly it's painful.
According to DD he thinks a normal mum would be happy for him whatever his decision and wouldn't be upset.

Is this a common tactic, deployed perhaps to assuage the guilt or at any rate uncomfortable feelings of estranging AC or used in order to deny even the possibility that they have an attitude problem - this insinuation or open statement that Mum is mentally abnormal? This ridiculous assertion reminds me of older children and young people in early adolescence who object to reasonable disciplinary boundaries by claiming that no-one else's Mum would dream of doing likewise (e.g. requiring the young person to come home by a certain time or to perform their fair share of domestic chores) and that all their friends are totally free to do whatever they want.

Deny, deflect, disrupt, distort - adaptive ways of communicating and relating NOT!

Not that these musings can help you, hugshelp, as your son will not validate you at all or allow dialogue. I wonder if he is secretly reading this GransNet thread, though. Is that possible? Perhaps he has been prompted to give some ideas a bit more thought but isn't yet ready to admit that this is happening.

What struck me when reading other peoples posts, is how similar our experiences are.

I thought when my (not quite estranged) AC decided to take my husband out for an evening, (never been known before) and not invite me, that it was my problem I felt hurt and discarded.
That I was being unreasonable to feel manipulated and ignored.
So I felt guilty and held my reactions in.

Now I see it was an attempt at divide and rule.

When we all accidently met up once my n.q.e, AC just stopped and looked at me.
My husband enveloped AC in a hug, (not something he would normally do).
I felt isolated and ostracised from their emotional moment.
I felt rightly or wrongly that he was endorsing the idea that I was the problem. At least in my AC's mind. I felt he needed to look like the 'good' one.
Later we argued about it, he said he thought he was building bridges for both of us.

One time when AC happily agreed to meet us I was astonished, as we had always had to make a date up to 6-12 weeks in advance, and it was never easy.

When we did meet, AC said (with a weird smile) they would no longer meet up with my relatives who AC had spent quite a lot of time with growing up.
They didn't see things from AC's point of view. They irritated AC, so they were discarded. I was told AC wouldn't be accepting any invitations anymore.

I didn't understand why AC needed to tell me these things, and with what I perceived as glee.
Having read on here about 'flying monkeys', I came to realise that AC took pleasure in telling me to my face that my relatives were being dropped, because AC thought they were being used by me as go between.

Would AC have come to that conclusion without reading about the 'rules' of NC?

I'd been 5 or 6 years dealing one by one with the ever increasing manipulation and pressure.
The strange hostile reactions from AC's partner. The Inlaws ignoring me at the few functions we attended.
The pressure of deciding whether we should go to these occasions or miss them because we were made to feel uncomfortable.
All of the situations and emotions I read lots of you have gone through.

Then I was accused of favouring one gc over the others. I immediately broke down and cried in front of AC.
It was just too much. I'd been jumping through hoops trying not to rock the boat.
I was shocked AC could think I would do something so harmful to the children.
I didn't argue back I just cried and cried.
Their reaction?
To say I'm sorry....no
'Oh! that went better than I had planned!!'

Planned? To what end? Who plans out a lie?

I had bit my tongue as I saw AC show favouritism to one of the gc, and now here they were accusing me of just that!!
It was then that the penny began to drop. There is no getting through to them.

They were blind. They saw only what they wanted to see. What's more, they actually chose to see things that weren't there!
Is this some form of projection?
Or just another way to blacken my name?
Why single me out? Why choose to put a wedge between my husband and I?

Either way it makes no difference to the outcome.
If it is projection, they are not aware of what they are doing and would never accept this as an explanation.
If its to make trouble, it's done just that, and they would never admit to it anyway!

I'm conscious that we parents/gparents are accused of following a pattern of behaviour (constantly 'explained' to us on the Brainwashing thread as being narcissistic).

But it seems to me that our AC's follow a well trodden path to NC and are led on like sheep.

Its totally possible for someone to describe you in ways that you can't relate to - However, "how" they came to see you that way is what's important, I think - Intelligent people aren't immune to manipulation or coming to unusual conclusions which can potentially trigger changes in their personality and decision making process - Any trigger, really -- from simple suggestions to huge shifts in world views -

My husband was an intelligent, high IQ, misanthrope, first to offer a smile, a joke then proceed to tell you mankind is doomed - He was incredibly insightful and would sometimes describe life and people in ways I didn't recognize, including how he saw me, too - But smart as he was it appeared to me he bought into, or believed, certain things he encountered which were designed to be considered, not etched in stone - Or static in their meaning - And it caused him misery, I think - Especially since he loathed anything unethical -

Anyway, it isn't uncommon for people to suddenly distance themselves - They truly could have a sudden shift in their perception - A shift viewed as sudden by others, but usually a long time coming for the individual experiencing the shift -

This is a comment made with the utmost compassion.

No Contact/ Estrangement

No Contact may be the latest buzz word, however it is NOT a cult, it is done by children who agonize over the decision. It is difficult to look at oneself and take inventory, part of the reason, I believe, is that it is painful. Abuse takes three generations of ACTIVE healing, active being doing the hard work of dealing with pain and anger of the dysfunction one has dealt with.

I can understand the hurt on the part of a parent whose children have separated from them. Mine almost did, I had a come to Jesus moment when my child told me they did not want to have anything to do with me because I was crazy.

Me the therapy career child, how could it be after YEARS and thousands of dollars to professionals.

Here is another part of the healing process, multiple therapists because you spend time and money with a nut head PHD charging you $150 an hour to tell you you cannot forgive your parents - ?? That is the major message a victim needs to learn to move on.

It is not easy for either party, the no contact or the party the no contact leaves. There is no easy solution, facing your own personal dysfunction often means facing the dysfunctional childhood you may have had. NOT EASY.

Someday you may understand the reason why a family member no contact(ed) you.

I was lucky enough to work out with my child a relationship, it took years to repair and still needs more repair.

Please above all try to understand that being angry is not a solution which solves any issue.

I believe in my heart no mother or father sets out to destroy the lives of their children by leaving them with no self confidence or self esteem. I believe in my heart no child hates their family.

No Contact has become an option to heal so the next generation can be free/free-er to put an end to that pesky dysfunctional cycle. (Three Generations).

Quote by NAMSNANNY
To say I'm sorry....no
'Oh! that went better than I had planned!!'

That is such an awful thing to say and to want you to hear it is heartbreaking.

I do despair at reading how our ac's need to distance themselves to live a better life and move on.
I agree that ac can change their perspective. They grow develop in their own way and make their own decisions.

However it seems with quite a few of us, the problems don't start until a partner becomes involved. There is a bond, that I think both we the parents and the ac naturally feel. For some reason things happen that then cause that bond to become shaky. Is it because the partner has no lifetime bond with us? Is it because as a couple they become different people? Is there jealousy because of the bond we, especially a mother, might have with their ac? Who knows.
Seems to me the majority of us have loved and done the best for our ac, supporting them mentally and financially.

Like others I know I have made mistakes, I owned up to those when things became really difficult. But the mistakes I made were largely due to the unkind behaviour towards us by said couple. In retrospect mb we should have sucked it up and let them treat us shabbily, at least then we might see ac and gc.
There are so many of us on here and as previous poster stated our stories are so similar. It does make me wonder if the internet is encouraging estrangement. Is there some sort of badge of honour for getting rid of the parents or in-laws? Truly unless there has been cruelty or inappropriate behaviour I cannot understand how it benefits anyone.

While it is possible that the partner is at issue, it is also possible that the relationship was unhealthy and the partner was the catalyst for recognizing that. It's also possible that the relationship naturally changed because the AC will put their partner as a priority and the parent takes issue with that.

I kind of expected all of the above answers.

I do ruminate over why people who KNOW they’re right bother to waste their time banging their head against this particular wall.

When I was happy with my lot the very LAST thing I could be bothered to do was look for arguments.
I was happy so I presumed the world was too!

itstormy...thanks ?

When stating the plausible possibilities I also said "Who knows"

but of course someone always does.

As ever trying to correct, instead of acknowledging the possibilities. Always a put down.
Not saying your views are wrong agnurse, anything's possible. But is it really necessary to again make an already distraught parent feel even more unworthy because of your suggested "unhealthy relationship.
We wouldn't be posting on here if we weren't desperate. Unless of course we are being supportive having already came through similar, feeling we can offer our experience to others at a different stage.

It seems to me that some who have chosen to go NC have more rigid views that some who are trying to find a way forward. I expect this is a self-protection mechanism. Maybe some feel it is the only way to stop people questioning their stance. Or maybe their rigidity led to the choice in the first place. I certainly feel that my ES wouldn't be able to see if I had grown another head, he has his perspective set in stone.
There are probably many reasons and views from both sides but I do think talking about them with an open heart and mind helps us all to cope a little bit better.
To all who are hurting

i was thinking about going no contact last night
i dont think it is a new faze
when i was younger
people were sent to coventry
and just like everything in this world now
its just exagerated

Perhaps the decision to go NC occurs quite commonly within a framework of wanting to be freer for a while/indefinitely from the perceived effects of multi-generational dysfunction. Even so, wouldn't going Lower Contact be preferable in most cases? I agree with this view that has often been expressed here.

It is striking that most posters on these threads don't identify with the idea that they have been/are grossly "dysfunctional", a vague term in any case which misleadingly suggests that distinctions between "functional" and "dysfunctional" can be clearly made and that these are valid categories which remain static and consistent over time rather than fluid and changeable or dynamic. Is this because of mass denial/myopia or is it more plausible that external, social and cultural factors are more influential and explanatory?

Do the times that we live in encourage unhealthy levels of egocentricity, self-absorption and entitlement - narcissistic traits - that are perhaps being "projected" onto GPs? Is there tacit encouragement to see "abuse", "neglect" and "damage" too readily? Is a victim mentality being promoted and rewarded on certain online sites and magazines that are used and read by parents? Is insufficient attention at present being paid to the appreciation, cultivation and maintenance of positive or good enough relationships within families?

"...talking with an open heart and mind helps us all to cope better"

So wise and true, hugshelp

from me also to everyone who is hurting

I think the idea that it takes 3 generations to heal is a psychological rabbit hole, a great expectation, a path that could lead to tragic disappointment should the 3rd generation fail - Or the second, for that matter - the

Who gets to determine who is first generation, second and third when factoring in ancestral dysfunction and transitional traumas and so forth?

Let's say we enter into future eras where estrangement becomes widespread - Do you think the end result would bring about extensive healing? Or possibly create so much space between human beings who while betting that forgetfulness would remedy ancestral wounds only led to be destined to repeating the very same mistakes from which they fled?

rosecarmel - You raise very important points too, I think. Parents who are willing to open their minds a little further would be well advised to consider through an enquiring, less emotional and, if possible, compassionate attitude what they know - and don't yet know but could learn or surmise - about the possible influence of transgenerational trauma that stretches back 3 or 4 generations. What can be discovered or assumed about the role of external factors on these people's ways of raising their children and on their styles of relating to them?

How can one-sided acceptance of a narrative that is likely to be incomplete, erroneous or substantially distorted in part or in whole, that is only one of multiple possible narratives, and the deliberate creation of deeply wounding division within a family as a consequence of uncritical acceptance of that narrative possibly help children's wellbeing and capacity to form healthy relationships in the future?

Sorry to harp on about cultural trends but I'm thinking about how it is becoming more common now to read about objections to politically correct dogma e.g. about "intersectionality" that is being taught in many university campuses. The complaint is being raised - with good reason, I believe - that many students are often taught to accept the ideology uncritically as "true" and not as a set of linked opinions which is what it really is.

Is the tone used by many online sites which give guidance to younger adults about managing difficult relationships a dogmatic and prescriptive one-size-fits-all one? I have had a look at some of this language myself and think that it does tend to lean in these directions.

Someone inherits "something" from their father, is aware of said inheritance, yet partners, reproduces then uses dad's antics as reason to distance -

The above is very much like what estrangement can look like up close -- and also from hindsight, in articles, on forums, in fiction and real life ..

Does estrangement truly break behavioral chains?

It is understandable that many parents who had repeatedly troubling or traumatic interpersonal experiences during their formative years - e.g. because of being bullied, ignored, manipulated, considered to be a disappointment, emotionally abused or abandoned - will continue to be affected by these experiences later in life. For example, they may continue to be easily triggered emotionally, with strong feelings of anger, guilt, shame, disgust or anxiety, and to re-experience ideas about disempowerment or of being unloved and insignificant. Emotional conditioning may have occurred to bring this about and to cause difficulties with thinking clearly and with maintaining stable and healthy relationships.

Good therapy, however, would be much more beneficial for many people in this position than cutting off their parents or parents-in-law. Good therapy, for example, might consist of researching, re-evaluating and reprocessing the past in relatively safe, calm and predictable or controllable ways, being helped to reframe the meaning of some aspects of what is remembered so that they may come to be perceived as being less threatening and relevant in the present day, looking at how to improve one's resourcefulness and generally expanding personal tolerance for the downs as well as ups of multigenerational family life.

So, rosecarmel, I imagine that estrangement comes from developing over time a narrow "window of tolerance" and that it probably often serves to maintain that unfortunate degree of constriction and "uptightness" or tension which can negatively impact upon how children are raised, thereby perpetuating undesirable patterns.