Support for all who are living with estrangement

You would think he'd realise that his GM who he used to see on a regular basis before he married, would be upset that she no longer sees him at all.

If he doesn't, there's nothing wrong with his mother making him aware of this then, as you say Madgran as an adult, he can decide whether or not he'll do anything about it.

This is an interesting topic. There is another thread running where a mother was wondering about getting involved with the estrangement of her adult children. The advice is overwhelmingly to stay out of it and let them be.

Yet on this thread the advice is for the estranged mother to speak on her mothers behalf.

It feels like the poor grandmother is being set-up by "guilt by association". The son is estranged from his mother for reasons we do not know. His relationship with his grandmother is becoming distant.

Why shouldn't the Grandmother reach out on her own? I worry having the estranged mother involved will only alientate the grandmother from her grandson.

I understand grandmother is older and not in the best of health, but can't the post "assist" her mother where she needs it- i.e. taking the sealed letter to the post for her if she can't manage? But let her write it herself. Or help her dial the phone, then leave the room to GM can have a private conversation with her grandson?

I think having the estranged mother involved will come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to the her son.

The grandmother has reached out on her own every week for the last year, he never answers or returns her calls.

Reasons which i will not divulge on here, she cannot write a letter herself.

It is breaking my heart every time i see her that all she wants before she dies is see her grandson.

If i can make that happen I really don't care if i look manipulative intrusive or whatever else he may think.

She is my mum and i will do anything for her.

You’re right Bopeep14.

I think an estranged mother will only come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to people who are all of those things themselves.

I have decided i am now done with this thread.

Thank you to all who have given positive advice and support.

I hope one day like myself you are all reunited with your adult children and your grandchildren, if that is what you want.

Special thanks to smiless2012, you have helped me a lot.

Bopeep14, I understand and do very much sympathize with your mother.

But, if she reached out to your son every week for the last year and he never answers or returns her calls then she has her answer from him, as sad as it may be for her.

Your involvement will not fix the situation with your son. I fear it will only make it worse. But from what you have said that relationship has sailed on anyway and you don't think there is any coming back from it.

However, you reaching out to your son on your mother's behalf might make your mother feel better in her relationship with you - you standing up for her. Which is kind of you to do for her. I only hope it's not stringing her along and giving her false hope, which is not kind.

Or you are intentionally/unintentionally using her as a reason to reach out to your son again.

Reaching out to him to apologize (specifically for what he is upset about, promising to do better and asking him to reach out when he is ready, then wait for him to contact you) is really the only way reaching out to him can end positively.

Reaching out to scold him or guilt him about his grandmother will not end in reconciliation.

But it sounds as though you are committed to reaching out on your mothers behalf.

Just know it will likely not make any positive improvement with your son and might in fact put further distance between you and be added to his list of reasons why he is estranged from you.

It's a terrible situation, no doubt. But, you can fix it. You just have to set pride aside and accept the relationship he is willing to give, not be hard set on the relationship on you terms.

Well, that's heartbreaking.

Bopeep, I think it not unreasonable to want to help your mother, I would too, but it seems you have both tried everything, so you really do not have any other option but to carry on without him in your life,make your own life count whether he is there or not. Things might change in the future but you have to face the awful fact that he will not see your mom before she dies. I cannot imagine how hard that must be, but it's not realistic just hoping is it.
Agnurse, not everyone deserves estrangement, it seems a cowards way out to me.

I understand why you are "done" with this thread Bopeep but it saddens me that you no longer feel able to post here.

It's clear to me that you are concerned about your mum being upset by her GS's absence in her life and that she is your primary concern.

I'm glad that you have found my responses helpful and should you ever want to pm me, please do so.

Pantglas I couldn't agree with you more.

Oh goodness, all these strong differences of opinion over people just trying to communicate. Because at the end of the day that's all any of us that are estranged want, just some communication. But any attempt to reach out is branded as something negative it appears. It seems these days the answer is talk to a counsellor, your friends, an online forum, anyone but the person you actually have problems with. Problems that could probably be fixed or at least the person that is being cut out could have the closure of understanding.
The trouble is we can all theorise and generalise about what's going on but the details seem to be different for many of us, but the pain and the need to be with people who can offer understanding is the same for us all.

I think an estranged mother will only come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to people who are all of those things themselves.

That has to be one of the most untrue things that I have ever read.

Obviously, you were not abused and physically shoved around and assaulted in front of your wife and grown children by a mentally ill mother..

Maybe untrue in your case TwentyTwenty but that comment by Pantglas was because of some of the responses received by a poster seeing her elderly mother's distress, as she no longer sees her GS, and looking for a way to try and get her ES to contact his GM.

She is looking for a solution for her mother and that doesn't mean she is "manipulative, intrusive and controlling", so in this case Pantglas was spot on.

Good post hugshelp.

My words stand on their own.

If a mother, grandmother or any other person is trying to manipulate another person: they are manipulative.

It has zero to do with the person that is being manipulated.

Just really, really bad assumptions on those statements, very judgmental against someone that you have no undersyansing of their disposition.

The exact cause that people may consider estrangement in the first place: being judged according to incorrect, bad and wrong assumptions.

But why am I even saying such? We all know that a child cannot correct a parent. It’s the parent that should correct the child, right?

If Jane’s grandmother/mother/whomever Mary stands at the corner gossiping about neighbors dresses, their poor looking yards and their stupid husbands, Mary is a gossiper.

It has nothing to do with Jane.

It’s called a projection disorder when someone like Mary pushes some internalized problem that they have onto another target, someone they can bash like Jane.

Would you say ‘Jane only thinks Mary is a gossiper because she herself is also one?’ even though Jane’s a home body and knows none of the neighbors?

My words stand on their own.

As do mine TwentyTwenty

Sorry, ‘As do mine’ with no explanation is a staw-man argument that has no substance, no standnand and no merit.

Please, answer my question about Jane and Mary if you can. ‘As do mine’ is hollow and meaningless, as I have given you a case where your statements are incorrect.

X = X because it is X.

7 is a number, and has nothing to do with X.

X is not X because 7 is also X.

Am I wrong? Correct me if I’m wrong.

I am not going to waste my time responding to your hypothetical scenario TwenyTwenty. This is a support thread for real people facing real situations.

My earlier statement was correct as far as Bopeep's situation is concerned. As for judging and making bad, incorrect assumptions, look to yourself.

I thought so. My situation is real, and my mother is a hateful, lying, and calling controlling parent. I am not, and my two grown children have also asked for no contact front he same person. My children think I’m a great, caring, loving person. That’s as real as it gets. Take note:

Opposing truths can frequently be the foundation of estrangement. We let little opposing truths go by the wayside all the time, because they aren’t really that important. One likes this politician, and another his opponent. This guy protests a cause and the other is a member in the opposed group. And so on.

But when one sides truth is a core component of the persons fabric of ‘who they are’, and the other’s truth is against it, a deepening rift will occur.

You just estranged me, because you cannot accept that you are defending a biased, untrue, non-substantiated claim that a child only sees his mother as controlling because he is also.

Should we reverse the principle, and say ‘Mothers only see their child as hurtful, abandoning and careless because they themselves are’?

No. Because it is a lie, and it’s not true and cannot be supported.

You are 100% biased in your approach.

I am real. I have been abused. And I need support just as anyone else on this forum..

But that doesn’t change the truth.

Truth is: unbending defenders of a falsehood create estrangement.

But again, I know that it is more possible for a whale to fly over the Eiffel Tower than a child to correct a parent, so my words aren’t for you, but for others seeking to escape the hurt of controlling, hateful parents that may have found this forum.

Enjoy X = 7

I didn't say your case isn't real TwentyTwenty I was referring to the 'case' of Jane and Mary who aren't real. It may be helpful if you read other posts properly before responding.

This as I have already said is a support thread for all living with estrangement. It is here for those "seeking to escape the hurt of controlling, hateful parents" and for parents seeking to escape the hurt of controlling, hateful adult children.

I read it, carefully replied, and have said all that I need to say about it.

Children aren’t all the things mothers are any more than mothers aren’t all the things children are.

That is the truth, for anyone able to accept it. Some can’t.

"Children aren't all the things mothers are any more than mother's aren't all the things children are" who said this wasn't true? You're the first one to make this statement.

This is a lie:

I think an estranged mother will only come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to people who are all of those things themselves.

From your perspective perhaps TwentyTwenty but as I've already explained earlier today, the context in which that was posted was correct.

It isn't necessary to accuse of others of lying just because you disagree with the them.

@TwentyTwenty. I am very sorry that you have suffered but I have to say that I find your most recent posts almost incomprehensible, so I don’t know whether to agree with you or not!

When folks generalize us children that have estranged our parents I’m the manner here:

I think an estranged mother will only come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to people who are all of those things themselves.

It is not specific to ‘Joe’s Mom & Joe”.

It blankets all us children as ‘the problem’.

It’s a lie. Like I said from the start and then when I was being ‘corrected’.

But even after all that, it’s still a lie.