Support for all who are living with estrangement

in the manner here sorry for my absolute terrible typing

Dolcelatte sorry, I’ll try to type better and be more precise in my statements.

Generalisations are often unavoidable TwentyTwenty especially when a subject as emotive as estrangement it being discussed,which is why it's often a good idea to begin with IMO (in my opinion) rather than the outright condemnation of another poster's statement as a lie.

Your experience is a terrible one; not all EP's and EGP's are innocent and not all are guilty.

So, to Dolcelatte’s point, I sometimes may try to give examples that are confusing and also also type terribly. I apologize.

I’m simplest terms, this statement by a poster is: harmful, not true and deepens the issues that cause estrangement:

I think an estranged mother will only come across as manipulative, intrusive and controlling to people who are all of those things themselves.

This is a generalized statment that can apply to everyone. It is not specific to 2 named people.

The statement is not true. It causes division.

It’s offensive. It assumes ‘people’ are this way, as quoted above. Not just ‘one individual’, but ‘people’.

This quoted statement is biased, untrue and cannot be supported.

I’m sure I’ll be corrected again, but I’m over that.

The generalization is the very exact problem. It is the type of conversation “oh yes, they are all like that, aren’t they”, or “how can all these kids think that way, don’t they all care?” or “how could they all not think of their children (GCs) ?”

It’s toxic! It fuels estrangement! And people find these and other forums from all walks, and see the ‘family mobbing’ mentality against any child that has estrangemed from their parents.

The quoted statement is not true.

But I’m of no help to any of you it seems because ‘I’m wrong’, so on your merry way!

And dear God, let’s just drop the conversation that is actually at the root of the issue.

Is the definition of manipulation trying to get someone to do something that they don’t want to do?

Is the mother manipulating the grown child?

no comment At all... none.

I think that's a good idea TwentyTwenty to drop this particular conversation. There's no point in my reiterating the comments I've already made and I see no point in you constantly flagging up a post, the use of which has been explained to you twice.

Your definition of manipulation is of course correct however IMO your argument is weakened, as you only seem to think it applicable to P's and GP's and never to AC when of course that isn't always the case.

Smiles said: * you only seem to think it applicable to P's and GP's and never to AC when of course that isn't always the case.*

I never once said that, please stop lying about that I said. or please point out and quote where I sad that.

I know and understand that PD and mentally I'll folks are in all walks, all generations. Sometimes they are GPs. Sometimes they are parents. Sometimes they are children. Sometimes they may even be GCs.

But you lying about what I've stated here is divisive and not helpful to anyone.

Is this intentional on your part?

I agree, let's quit while you're ahead.

The great news is that there are lots of gown ups, that are able to make up their own minds. I will point out one, non-GP non-none biased toward anyone point once again, take note:

Opposing truths are the foundation of all estrangement. The more core and critical the truth is to the person, the deeper that the estrangement becomes.

I'm probably wrong again, but I'm happy, and at peace, and very OK with that.

Actually I was thinking it might be better for you to quit *TwentyTwenty, not while you're ahead but before you fall even further behind.

"You only seem to think" is my interpretation of your at times, rather difficult to follow posts, so I have not accused you of anything.

Do not call me a liar. I have done my upmost to respond to your posts with respect and see no reason why you cannot reciprocate.

As you are happy and at peace and very OK with probably being wrong I see no point in continuing with this particular conversation.

I said that I was behind. I said quit while you're ahead, not me.

You are running past yourself in anger, your mask is coming off.. and I definitely don't mean to come here to make anyone so mad they can't see straight. Sorry.

Move along, consider us estranged. happy life to you.

Oh S**t.. I wrote the "I said I was behind" when I didn't actually type those exact words, instead I typed "you're ahead"..

Hopefully the faithful flock won't come down and attempt to shame me more for that error..

No TwentyTwenty after more than 6 years of posting here on GN and other sites regarding estrangement, I am quite capable of having this type of discussion without running past myself in anger and I can assure you I have never come across anyone capable of making me so mad I can't see straight, so no need to apologise.

Maybe your typing error was because you're the one "running past yourself in anger" TwentyTwenty.

yes maybe i am please leave me alone please, i agree with everything you say, please stop. i was wrong from the start, everything you said was right and I agree with you ending this and also want it to stop.

No worries.

If someone has a child or parent with a narcissistic personality disorder, then the only solution is to distance yourself. If it's just over a one off comment or instance that caused offence, it seems ridiculous, but it could be that it has been forever a niggling problem that eventually, was the straw that broke the camels back. Every situation is different and they all hurt.

I think you're right Peonyrose. Things can build over time and repeated occurrences, and can be generally ignored if they aren't a big deal; however, often that just emboldens the person making statements/doing things/whatever that are offensive.

But when a mom's dislike for a son's spouse crosses to a comment: "that Russian woman", then that may be the back breaker straw that you mentioned.

It's like, you can tolerate a lot, and we all kinda knew there was something there.. But then a statement like that pretty much seals the deal on understanding how mom felt about my wife.

But that's not why we estranged. We've got a lot thicker skin than that.

Yes they do all hurt Peonyrose and when it comes to dealing with a narcissist, the only way to win the game is to stop playing.

Lol

LOLOL

Estrangement and dealing with the damage that a narcissist can cause is such a difficult subject, I wonder why some find it so amusing and respond with lol. Not very helpful especially on a thread that is here to give support.

Lol ...what exactly is there to laugh at? The fact is that everyone on this thread is dealing with pain of some sort … whether that has come though their own actions or not, I fail to see how Lol fits in really!!

Madgran77, I think some of the struggles people have with this thread is that it’s not as much a support group as it is an enabling and validation group.

Your comment is fair “whether it is from their own action or not”, but rarely (if ever) addressed.

Posters on here usually maintain that they did nothing wrong and have no accountability in the estrangement. They are just victims of narcissistic adult children who are using their children against their parents.

Yet, when you look elsewhere - parent boards, grandchildren boards, in-law boards you see the other side and how hard people on the other side try to make it work. With examples and honest discussion of all the parties behavior (including their own). On other boards there is a lot of “tough love”, adult children are often questioned, challenged and called out for any bad behavior by other posters. This rarely happens on this board.

Posters behave badly, overstepped boundaries, treated adults in their life as subordinate children and are unwilling to see their role in any of it. They hide out here being victims and telling their story over and over and over again to new posters.

But they never acknowledge they might have played a role.

And they just want validation that they did nothing wrong and the people they raised are either evil and vindictive or unwilling pawns in their partner’s evil and vindictive wants.

It’s sad to watch. I understand some long term posters here have made an identity around being a victim and have no role in the estrangement.

But in most cases it’s just not true.

I’ve found that most people who are actual victims of truly toxic behavior by their adult children don’t stick around here. They PM those of us who seem to have a more “balanced” approach, ask advice and never return to the board because it doesn’t help them. It actually encourages them to nuke the relationship by doing exactly what the other posters did that ended in estrangement.

I’m sure you all will disagree. I expect that. But there is someone lurking on here who is at a cross roads and will choose to change and put the relationship above their own pride, and that’s whom here for.

My belief is my belief based on my experience of being estranged and many other grandparents/parents experiences and is as valid as anyone else’s on these threads. No-one has the right to tell anyone else what to believe based on their experience.

I am fortunate to have resolved the situation after many years of heart searching and I post on here to give those with unresolved difficulties some hope that there’s a possible way forward. My way won’t work for everyone but someone else’s way might.

We don’t need to be taken to task over what we believe because you don’t agree with it TwentyTwenty and certainly not over someone else’s post that resonated.